WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:00.868 He twice served as acting director during that time. 2 00:00:00.868 --> 00:00:06.067 Yesterday President Obama vowed to destroy ISIS Syria and Iraq. 3 00:00:06.067 --> 00:00:10.534 Speaking at MacDill Air Force Base in Florida, he said that 4 00:00:10.534 --> 00:00:14.400 the United States would not take on the terrorists alone. 5 00:00:14.400 --> 00:00:18.000 He also promised a military audience that they would not 6 00:00:18.000 --> 00:00:21.400 return to direct combat in Iraq. 7 00:00:21.400 --> 00:00:24.167 Yesterday the House of Representatives voted to 8 00:00:24.167 --> 00:00:26.767 authorize funds to arm the Free Syrian Army. 9 00:00:26.767 --> 00:00:28.934 I'm pleased to have Mike Morell back at 10 00:00:28.934 --> 00:00:30.968 this table. Welcome. 11 00:00:30.968 --> 00:00:34.334 Charlie, thank you. 12 00:00:34.334 --> 00:00:37.701 It's great to be here. 13 00:00:37.701 --> 00:00:40.067 Let me just go -- give us a picture first of all 14 00:00:40.067 --> 00:00:42.400 these groups and why we have come to single out ISIS and the 15 00:00:42.400 --> 00:00:44.734 threat they pose. 16 00:00:44.734 --> 00:00:47.067 At the moment there are a number of al Qaeda 17 00:00:47.067 --> 00:00:49.400 groups in the world that pose a threat to the 18 00:00:49.400 --> 00:00:51.734 United States of America 19 00:00:51.734 --> 00:00:56.067 -- to the homeland. 20 00:00:56.067 --> 00:01:00.934 Al Qaeda in Yemen is at the top of the list. 21 00:01:00.934 --> 00:01:05.000 The last three attempted attacks on the homeland came out 22 00:01:05.000 --> 00:01:08.567 of Yemen: Christmas Day bomber, 2009; printer cartridge plot, 23 00:01:08.567 --> 00:01:12.234 2010 to bring down cargo planes; 2011, nonmetallic suicide vest 24 00:01:12.234 --> 00:01:15.434 to bring down aircraft. 25 00:01:15.434 --> 00:01:18.434 They're very dangerous. 26 00:01:18.434 --> 00:01:21.634 You have -- still have al Qaeda Central leadership in Pakistan. 27 00:01:21.634 --> 00:01:25.133 They have been degraded. 28 00:01:25.133 --> 00:01:28.634 They have been in some cases decimated. 29 00:01:28.634 --> 00:01:32.734 But they still pose a threat to the homeland. 30 00:01:32.734 --> 00:01:36.767 And now you have Syria where you actually have two groups. 31 00:01:36.767 --> 00:01:40.000 You've got the first al Qaeda group that was established there 32 00:01:40.000 --> 00:01:42.701 Jabhat al Nusra and they are tied -- they are aligned closely 33 00:01:42.701 --> 00:01:45.234 with al Qaeda in Pakistan. 34 00:01:45.234 --> 00:01:50.501 And they pose -- 35 00:01:50.501 --> 00:01:53.367 -- which is Zawahiri. 36 00:01:53.367 --> 00:01:56.100 -- Zawahiri, they pose a threat to the homeland. 37 00:01:56.100 --> 00:01:58.767 And you have ISIS which has garnered everybody's attention 38 00:01:58.767 --> 00:02:01.901 because it has grabbed so much territory. 39 00:02:01.901 --> 00:02:04.534 It too poses a threat. 40 00:02:04.534 --> 00:02:07.167 But we, I think we have to look at these together. 41 00:02:07.167 --> 00:02:09.801 And we have to make sure that we're focused on all of them 42 00:02:09.801 --> 00:02:12.067 and not just let ISIS grab all of our attention and grab all of 43 00:02:12.067 --> 00:02:14.334 our focus and grab all of our resources because these others 44 00:02:14.334 --> 00:02:16.567 will bite us if we do that. 45 00:02:16.567 --> 00:02:18.834 Is th administration focusing on 46 00:02:18.834 --> 00:02:21.100 all three of them? 47 00:02:21.100 --> 00:02:24.601 Or four? 48 00:02:24.601 --> 00:02:27.934 I don't know. 49 00:02:27.934 --> 00:02:31.434 I think that -- I think that the strategy -- 50 00:02:31.434 --> 00:02:34.801 the President's strategy with regard to Iraq and Syria will 51 00:02:34.801 --> 00:02:37.567 also help us deal with al Nusra if successful. 52 00:02:37.567 --> 00:02:40.167 But as you and I have talked before, the weakness of that 53 00:02:40.167 --> 00:02:43.133 strategy is on the Syria side, the strength of the strategy on 54 00:02:43.133 --> 00:02:45.734 the Iraq side. 55 00:02:45.734 --> 00:02:48.033 I know we can come back to that. 56 00:02:48.033 --> 00:02:50.868 I hope we're still focused on al Qaeda in Pakistan and al Qaeda 57 00:02:50.868 --> 00:02:53.467 in Yemen. 58 00:02:53.467 --> 00:02:55.901 I don't see as much U.S. 59 00:02:55.901 --> 00:02:58.801 activity there as I used to see. 60 00:02:58.801 --> 00:03:01.701 But we have to stay focused on them. 61 00:03:01.701 --> 00:03:04.601 How much intelligence do we have? 62 00:03:04.601 --> 00:03:07.467 Because many people believe that we didn't see the rise of ISIS 63 00:03:07.467 --> 00:03:10.367 and its capacity to take territory as fast as it did. 64 00:03:10.367 --> 00:03:14.067 Right. 65 00:03:14.067 --> 00:03:18.133 So when I was there, when I was serving at the Central 66 00:03:18.133 --> 00:03:21.400 Intelligence Agency, we were telling a story about the rising 67 00:03:21.400 --> 00:03:24.634 strategic threat of ISIS. 68 00:03:24.634 --> 00:03:27.267 As you know, ISIS is the direct descendant of AQI. 69 00:03:27.267 --> 00:03:30.434 When U.S. 70 00:03:30.434 --> 00:03:34.968 forces left Iraq at the end of 2011 -- 71 00:03:34.968 --> 00:03:37.234 AQI certainly is al Qaeda in Iraq. 72 00:03:37.234 --> 00:03:39.501 Al Qaeda in Iraq Zarqawi's group -- the group 73 00:03:39.501 --> 00:03:41.767 that was established right after the U.S. 74 00:03:41.767 --> 00:03:44.467 invaded Iraq. 75 00:03:44.467 --> 00:03:46.734 They were essentially -- 76 00:03:46.734 --> 00:03:49.234 they were not defeated but they were significantly degraded at 77 00:03:49.234 --> 00:03:52.367 the end of 2011. 78 00:03:52.367 --> 00:03:55.501 When U.S. 79 00:03:55.501 --> 00:03:58.634 military forces left, a couple of things happened. 80 00:03:58.634 --> 00:04:01.367 One is the military pressure was taken off of AQI and Maliki 81 00:04:01.367 --> 00:04:04.100 moved in an authoritarian direction. 82 00:04:04.100 --> 00:04:06.834 The Prime Minister of Iraq. 83 00:04:06.834 --> 00:04:09.567 The Prime Minister of Iraq -- the former Prime 84 00:04:09.567 --> 00:04:12.334 Minister of Iraq and he moved in a direction politically that 85 00:04:12.334 --> 00:04:15.667 alienated the Sunnis. 86 00:04:15.667 --> 00:04:19.300 And they rallied around AQI. 87 00:04:19.300 --> 00:04:23.200 And so AQI started its rebirth then, and we reported that. 88 00:04:23.200 --> 00:04:27.300 Then Syria happens. 89 00:04:27.300 --> 00:04:31.434 And what happens with Syria is that AQI moves across the 90 00:04:31.434 --> 00:04:35.100 border into Syria, changes its name, rebrands itself as al 91 00:04:35.100 --> 00:04:38.367 Qaeda in Iraq and the Levant or Syria. 92 00:04:38.367 --> 00:04:41.601 Because it wants to say it's playing in both places in its 93 00:04:41.601 --> 00:04:44.667 name so it rebrands itself. 94 00:04:44.667 --> 00:04:47.601 And in Syria it gets even stronger. 95 00:04:47.601 --> 00:04:51.667 And it gets even stronger in Syria for a couple of reasons. 96 00:04:51.667 --> 00:04:55.234 One, it's getting battlefield experience. 97 00:04:55.234 --> 00:04:58.400 Nothing is more important than getting battlefield experience. 98 00:04:58.400 --> 00:05:01.300 By -- by having victories in Syria, it draws attention. 99 00:05:01.300 --> 00:05:03.701 Attention in the terrorism business is good because it 100 00:05:03.701 --> 00:05:05.868 means more money flows your way. 101 00:05:05.868 --> 00:05:08.133 So, more money started flowing its way. 102 00:05:08.133 --> 00:05:10.767 And recruits. 103 00:05:10.767 --> 00:05:13.434 And recruits. 104 00:05:13.434 --> 00:05:16.701 And so -- and all of these foreign fighters that were 105 00:05:16.701 --> 00:05:19.767 going there, the vast majority ended up with either al Nusra or 106 00:05:19.767 --> 00:05:23.100 with -- with ISIS; so again, growing strength. 107 00:05:23.100 --> 00:05:26.067 And then lastly, they got their hands on advanced conventional 108 00:05:26.067 --> 00:05:28.701 weapons from Syrian arsenals. 109 00:05:28.701 --> 00:05:31.300 So their growing strength when they move across the border. 110 00:05:31.300 --> 00:05:34.200 They continue to grow in strength. 111 00:05:34.200 --> 00:05:37.467 We're telling that whole story. 112 00:05:37.467 --> 00:05:40.868 That -- that's where we were when I left the picture. 113 00:05:40.868 --> 00:05:44.367 Now my understanding based on putting kind of pieces together 114 00:05:44.367 --> 00:05:47.267 here and reading the open media and reading what senior 115 00:05:47.267 --> 00:05:50.567 officials are telling reporters on background is that we didn't 116 00:05:50.567 --> 00:05:53.901 do a very good job from an intelligence perspective in 117 00:05:53.901 --> 00:05:56.901 seeing the tipping point. 118 00:05:56.901 --> 00:05:59.901 And what I mean by the tipping point is seeing when ISIS had 119 00:05:59.901 --> 00:06:03.367 reached the point that it made the decision to start grabbing 120 00:06:03.367 --> 00:06:07.200 all this territory inside of Iraq. 121 00:06:07.200 --> 00:06:10.567 We kind of missed that. 122 00:06:10.567 --> 00:06:13.601 And we also missed, I think, our understanding of the Iraqi 123 00:06:13.601 --> 00:06:16.501 military and how brittle it was, and its inability to stand up 124 00:06:16.501 --> 00:06:18.934 and fight. 125 00:06:18.934 --> 00:06:21.000 I think we missed those two things. 126 00:06:21.000 --> 00:06:22.834 What's the competition between 127 00:06:22.834 --> 00:06:24.667 al Nusra and ISIS? 128 00:06:24.667 --> 00:06:28.067 So there's -- 129 00:06:28.067 --> 00:06:29.868 Because they were fighting each 130 00:06:29.868 --> 00:06:31.701 other a bit in Syria. 131 00:06:31.701 --> 00:06:34.601 Yes there's intense competition. 132 00:06:34.601 --> 00:06:37.033 And they have occasionally fought with each other and 133 00:06:37.033 --> 00:06:39.467 they're still occasionally fighting with each other. 134 00:06:39.467 --> 00:06:42.367 Is it just for power or is it because they have 135 00:06:42.367 --> 00:06:44.834 different goals? 136 00:06:44.834 --> 00:06:49.000 No, they have exactly the same goal. 137 00:06:49.000 --> 00:06:53.267 They share al Qaeda's ideology of 138 00:06:53.267 --> 00:06:57.701 establishing a global caliphate. 139 00:06:57.701 --> 00:07:01.501 What happened was al Nusra was a Syrian extremist group that 140 00:07:01.501 --> 00:07:05.167 established itself after the Syrian civil war started. 141 00:07:05.167 --> 00:07:08.167 They were recognized by Zawahiri in Pakistan as the al Qaeda 142 00:07:08.167 --> 00:07:11.367 group in Syria. 143 00:07:11.367 --> 00:07:14.167 So then you had AQI who decides hey, I want to 144 00:07:14.167 --> 00:07:16.801 go join that fight. 145 00:07:16.801 --> 00:07:19.267 So they move across the border and Zawahiri says to them no, 146 00:07:19.267 --> 00:07:21.634 no, your fight is in Iraq. 147 00:07:21.634 --> 00:07:24.434 You stay over there. 148 00:07:24.434 --> 00:07:26.901 And they said no, we're doing our own thing here. 149 00:07:26.901 --> 00:07:29.801 We want to get in the game over here. 150 00:07:29.801 --> 00:07:32.300 So Zawahiri disowned them because they 151 00:07:32.300 --> 00:07:34.534 wouldn't follow his orders. 152 00:07:34.534 --> 00:07:36.934 Some people say incorrectly that Zawahiri disowned them because 153 00:07:36.934 --> 00:07:39.534 of their brutality. 154 00:07:39.534 --> 00:07:46.634 That's nonsense. 155 00:07:46.634 --> 00:07:49.734 Al Qaeda in Pakistan is every bit as brutal as ISIS. 156 00:07:49.734 --> 00:07:52.801 Look what they did to Daniel Pearl, for example, the same 157 00:07:52.801 --> 00:07:55.901 thing that 158 00:07:55.901 --> 00:07:58.968 >>ISIS has done. No: It is said that ISIS' ambition to create 159 00:07:58.968 --> 00:08:02.067 the Islamic state now goes against the advice of Zawahiri and 160 00:08:02.067 --> 00:08:05.300 before of Osama bin Laden. 161 00:08:05.300 --> 00:08:08.567 Right. 162 00:08:08.567 --> 00:08:11.801 Don't get out too far. 163 00:08:11.801 --> 00:08:15.067 Right. So that's the other difference, right. The 164 00:08:15.067 --> 00:08:18.300 other difference is that -- is that al Qaeda in Pakistan's 165 00:08:18.300 --> 00:08:22.501 main focus is attacking the United States first, cutting off 166 00:08:22.501 --> 00:08:26.133 the head of the snake, as they call it; and then, and then 167 00:08:26.133 --> 00:08:29.801 second, getting rid of all the apostate leaders in the Middle 168 00:08:29.801 --> 00:08:33.200 East that they feel are working at the behest of the United 169 00:08:33.200 --> 00:08:36.334 States; and then establishing a caliphate. 170 00:08:36.334 --> 00:08:38.934 So ISIS is coming at this the back way. 171 00:08:38.934 --> 00:08:41.434 ISIS is saying let's grab territory. 172 00:08:41.434 --> 00:08:44.033 Let's establish our caliphate and then we'll go after the 173 00:08:44.033 --> 00:08:46.267 United States. 174 00:08:46.267 --> 00:08:48.701 So, another example of not listening to Zawahiri. 175 00:08:48.701 --> 00:08:51.367 What is the ultimate fear we have of ISIS 176 00:08:51.367 --> 00:08:54.567 and these other groups? 177 00:08:54.567 --> 00:08:57.667 Two aspects of ISIS, I think. 178 00:08:57.667 --> 00:09:01.033 One is attacking the United States. 179 00:09:01.033 --> 00:09:04.767 And I think with ISIS you have to worry about attacks today. 180 00:09:04.767 --> 00:09:08.400 And those attacks come in two forms. 181 00:09:08.400 --> 00:09:12.000 They come in young men in the United States who have been 182 00:09:12.000 --> 00:09:15.634 radicalized by the ISIS movement and who conduct attacks all on 183 00:09:15.634 --> 00:09:19.067 their own without any direction from ISIS. 184 00:09:19.067 --> 00:09:21.901 And second are foreign fighters who have gone from the United 185 00:09:21.901 --> 00:09:25.234 States, Canada or western Europe, to Syria and get 186 00:09:25.234 --> 00:09:28.467 directed by ISIS to come back and conduct an attack, so that's 187 00:09:28.467 --> 00:09:31.667 the threat today. 188 00:09:31.667 --> 00:09:35.234 Over the longer term ISIS can become the kind of threat that 189 00:09:35.234 --> 00:09:38.167 al Qaeda was on September 10th, 2001. 190 00:09:38.167 --> 00:09:41.334 Over time they could put together that kind of operation 191 00:09:41.334 --> 00:09:45.200 if they have the time and the space and the 192 00:09:45.200 --> 00:09:49.501 resources to do so. 193 00:09:49.501 --> 00:09:53.601 So that's -- that's the threat that they pose. 194 00:09:53.601 --> 00:09:58.067 Al Nusra, al Nusra poses that same kind of threat today, but 195 00:09:58.067 --> 00:10:02.467 because -- but because they are -- they are more aligned with 196 00:10:02.467 --> 00:10:06.901 Zawahiri and more aligned with al Qaeda in Pakistan, they're 197 00:10:06.901 --> 00:10:11.334 actually to me more of a concern today in terms of attacking the 198 00:10:11.334 --> 00:10:15.367 homeland than ISIS is because they have that "attack America 199 00:10:15.367 --> 00:10:19.400 first" strategy of Zawahiri. 200 00:10:19.400 --> 00:10:23.434 So what is the President's strategy? 201 00:10:23.434 --> 00:10:26.934 So the President's strategy is to take their 202 00:10:26.934 --> 00:10:30.434 territory away. 203 00:10:30.434 --> 00:10:33.901 Weaken them and I believe, although this has not been said, 204 00:10:33.901 --> 00:10:36.434 but I believe based on Bob Orr from CBS's very good interview 205 00:10:36.434 --> 00:10:38.934 with John Brennan. 206 00:10:38.934 --> 00:10:41.467 The CIA director. 207 00:10:41.467 --> 00:10:43.968 CIA director that the strategy is also to get rid 208 00:10:43.968 --> 00:10:46.467 of the leadership as we've done in other parts of the world. So 209 00:10:46.467 --> 00:10:49.000 take away their territory, get rid of their leadership, 210 00:10:49.000 --> 00:10:52.534 weaken them to the point where they can't hold territory, 211 00:10:52.534 --> 00:10:55.567 can't pose a threat. 212 00:10:55.567 --> 00:10:58.100 So this is by Special Forces or drones or any 213 00:10:58.100 --> 00:11:00.501 other method you can possibly use. 214 00:11:00.501 --> 00:11:02.801 Any other method. 215 00:11:02.801 --> 00:11:04.801 Find and kill. 216 00:11:04.801 --> 00:11:06.767 Find, kill, capture. 217 00:11:06.767 --> 00:11:08.501 Find, kill, capture -- would they rather 218 00:11:08.501 --> 00:11:10.067 kill them or capture? 219 00:11:10.067 --> 00:11:11.734 I would rather have them captured. 220 00:11:11.734 --> 00:11:13.501 Yes. 221 00:11:13.501 --> 00:11:15.767 Why? 222 00:11:15.767 --> 00:11:18.234 Because they can tell me things then. 223 00:11:18.234 --> 00:11:20.400 When you look at the strategy the President 224 00:11:20.400 --> 00:11:23.701 brings us to today, where we are now, among the people you 225 00:11:23.701 --> 00:11:27.868 know and your own analysis, what has been the change in the 226 00:11:27.868 --> 00:11:31.934 President's mind-set? 227 00:11:31.934 --> 00:11:35.501 The change in his mind-set, I think, is that 228 00:11:35.501 --> 00:11:38.701 when-- when it moved so quickly to grab territory, it became 229 00:11:38.701 --> 00:11:42.000 obvious just how significant a threat this was. 230 00:11:42.000 --> 00:11:44.701 So we talked about the threat to the homeland but we didn't talk 231 00:11:44.701 --> 00:11:47.234 about one other threat which is the threat to the region as a 232 00:11:47.234 --> 00:11:49.734 whole, right -- which is the threat to the whole stability of 233 00:11:49.734 --> 00:11:51.868 the region. 234 00:11:51.868 --> 00:11:53.734 And their definition of Islamic State may 235 00:11:53.734 --> 00:11:55.601 not just be where it is now between Iraq and 236 00:11:55.601 --> 00:11:59.033 Syria, it maybe -- 237 00:11:59.033 --> 00:12:00.968 In fact it's larger. 238 00:12:00.968 --> 00:12:03.434 Right. 239 00:12:03.434 --> 00:12:06.200 In fact, I think we actually talked last time 240 00:12:06.200 --> 00:12:08.634 Charlie about the correct translation of their name is the 241 00:12:08.634 --> 00:12:11.100 Islamic State of Iraq and Greater Syria. 242 00:12:11.100 --> 00:12:13.267 And their definition of greater Syria is pretty much the entire 243 00:12:13.267 --> 00:12:15.767 Levant area. 244 00:12:15.767 --> 00:12:18.501 So when they think of their caliphate it's much broader 245 00:12:18.501 --> 00:12:21.467 than just Iraq and Syria. 246 00:12:21.467 --> 00:12:24.267 So the other concern here in addition to attacks on the 247 00:12:24.267 --> 00:12:27.567 homeland is -- is the impact on the stability of the whole 248 00:12:27.567 --> 00:12:30.534 region and sectarian war in the whole region and the redrawing 249 00:12:30.534 --> 00:12:33.033 of all these lines in the Middle East. 250 00:12:33.033 --> 00:12:35.367 And I think it was their very quick movement and success that 251 00:12:35.367 --> 00:12:37.968 got everybody's attention and said look, we have to do 252 00:12:37.968 --> 00:12:40.167 something about this. 253 00:12:40.167 --> 00:12:42.067 And the beheading caught the public's anger. 254 00:12:42.067 --> 00:12:43.667 Yes and changed the public's attitude overnight. 255 00:12:43.667 --> 00:12:45.300 Publicly. 256 00:12:45.300 --> 00:12:46.901 Yes. 257 00:12:46.901 --> 00:12:48.534 Rather than being sucked into 258 00:12:48.534 --> 00:12:51.567 another conflict in 259 00:12:51.567 --> 00:12:54.634 the Middle East, they began to say they cannot do this without 260 00:12:54.634 --> 00:12:57.234 a reprisal. 261 00:12:57.234 --> 00:12:59.834 Right -- which is actually a very 262 00:12:59.834 --> 00:13:02.434 interesting look 263 00:13:02.434 --> 00:13:05.033 at the question of does ISIS understand us or not. Because if 264 00:13:05.033 --> 00:13:07.334 you were advising ISIS -- 265 00:13:07.334 --> 00:13:09.667 If they did they have miscalculated. 266 00:13:09.667 --> 00:13:11.501 They've miscalculated. So if you were advising 267 00:13:11.501 --> 00:13:13.334 >>ISIS you would say don't do that. Don't behead 268 00:13:13.334 --> 00:13:15.167 these people: Yes. 269 00:13:15.167 --> 00:13:17.000 If you do this you're going to ignite passions in 270 00:13:17.000 --> 00:13:18.834 the United States and Britain. 271 00:13:18.834 --> 00:13:20.968 But at the same time fear is an essential part 272 00:13:20.968 --> 00:13:23.067 of their modus operandi. 273 00:13:23.067 --> 00:13:25.000 Right. 274 00:13:25.000 --> 00:13:26.667 And this does induce fear. 275 00:13:26.667 --> 00:13:28.434 What General Dempsey said, if all that fails, 276 00:13:28.434 --> 00:13:30.601 we may need ground troops. 277 00:13:30.601 --> 00:13:32.467 Right. 278 00:13:32.467 --> 00:13:35.033 What do you assume he meant? 279 00:13:35.033 --> 00:13:37.467 And do you assume that the President 280 00:13:37.467 --> 00:13:39.868 expected him to say that? 281 00:13:39.868 --> 00:13:42.534 So I think General Dempsey was misquoted. 282 00:13:42.534 --> 00:13:44.801 So the President has made -- 283 00:13:44.801 --> 00:13:47.133 Misquoted or misunderstood. 284 00:13:47.133 --> 00:13:49.834 Misunderstood, misunderstood, 285 00:13:49.834 --> 00:13:54.501 very good -- Misunderstood. 286 00:13:54.501 --> 00:13:58.234 What the President has decided on the Iraq side of the border 287 00:13:58.234 --> 00:14:02.067 is to support the Iraqi military and the Kurdish 288 00:14:02.067 --> 00:14:05.434 military with intelligence, with enablers, advise and assist 289 00:14:05.434 --> 00:14:08.968 Special Forces. 290 00:14:08.968 --> 00:14:12.334 And the decision right now is to put those individuals as sort 291 00:14:12.334 --> 00:14:15.133 of the brigade level, right. 292 00:14:15.133 --> 00:14:19.133 Not going out on missions, right -- at the command level. 293 00:14:19.133 --> 00:14:22.667 That's where -- that's where the President has decided to put 294 00:14:22.667 --> 00:14:25.534 them at this point. 295 00:14:25.534 --> 00:14:28.200 Those advisors are going to be very, very important to the 296 00:14:28.200 --> 00:14:30.434 Iraqi military and to the Kurdish Peshmerga doing their 297 00:14:30.434 --> 00:14:32.634 job right. 298 00:14:32.634 --> 00:14:34.767 What will they be telling them, teaching them, 299 00:14:34.767 --> 00:14:36.634 advising them? 300 00:14:36.634 --> 00:14:39.200 They'll be -- advising them on strategy and 301 00:14:39.200 --> 00:14:42.367 tactics, right, that's what they will be doing. 302 00:14:42.367 --> 00:14:45.667 At the same time supporting them with air strikes, right? 303 00:14:45.667 --> 00:14:48.968 What General Dempsey said was there may come a point where we 304 00:14:48.968 --> 00:14:52.067 have to not only have advisors at the command level we may have 305 00:14:52.067 --> 00:14:54.701 to have advisors at the ground level. 306 00:14:54.701 --> 00:14:57.400 So they would be advising at the ground level but not fighting, 307 00:14:57.400 --> 00:14:59.934 not actually fighting themselves -- right. 308 00:14:59.934 --> 00:15:02.701 And that's a big difference. 309 00:15:02.701 --> 00:15:05.067 When I think of combat troops on the ground I think of 310 00:15:05.067 --> 00:15:07.067 Americans in battle. 311 00:15:07.067 --> 00:15:09.267 And what General Dempsey was talking about was advisors at 312 00:15:09.267 --> 00:15:11.400 that lower level. 313 00:15:11.400 --> 00:15:13.567 Not fighters. 314 00:15:13.567 --> 00:15:15.467 But are they going to be on the firing line? 315 00:15:15.467 --> 00:15:17.133 Yes, they would be. 316 00:15:17.133 --> 00:15:19.133 I mean they're at risk now simply by being there. 317 00:15:19.133 --> 00:15:22.868 Would they be at greater risk? Absolutely. 318 00:15:22.868 --> 00:15:24.634 Do I think it makes sense to have them at that lower level? 319 00:15:24.634 --> 00:15:26.467 Yes, absolutely. 320 00:15:26.467 --> 00:15:28.434 Everybody seems to believe that you cannot do it 321 00:15:28.434 --> 00:15:30.167 with air power alone. 322 00:15:30.167 --> 00:15:32.067 Therefore you've got to have ground troops. 323 00:15:32.067 --> 00:15:33.934 And the ground troops have to come from somewhere. 324 00:15:33.934 --> 00:15:35.801 Right. 325 00:15:35.801 --> 00:15:37.701 And so far we know there 326 00:15:37.701 --> 00:15:39.567 is those from Kurdistan. 327 00:15:39.567 --> 00:15:42.300 Right. 328 00:15:42.300 --> 00:15:45.400 And so far there is the anticipation in Syria of 329 00:15:45.400 --> 00:15:48.467 the Free Syrian Army which had been languishing, is it fair to 330 00:15:48.467 --> 00:15:51.033 say, because they didn't get the support that they wanted 331 00:15:51.033 --> 00:15:53.400 several years ago and have some divisions and all of that. 332 00:15:53.400 --> 00:15:55.434 Many people I know say that's not enough. 333 00:15:55.434 --> 00:15:57.467 Do you think it's enough? 334 00:15:57.467 --> 00:15:59.501 On the Iraq side. 335 00:15:59.501 --> 00:16:01.501 Yes. 336 00:16:01.501 --> 00:16:03.267 On the Iraq side of the border -- 337 00:16:03.267 --> 00:16:04.834 You have the Iraqi army. 338 00:16:04.834 --> 00:16:06.501 -- you've got the Iraqi army and you got the 339 00:16:06.501 --> 00:16:08.267 Kurdish Peshmerga. 340 00:16:08.267 --> 00:16:10.100 You've got U.S. 341 00:16:10.100 --> 00:16:11.701 advisors, you have U.S. 342 00:16:11.701 --> 00:16:13.167 advisors and you have air strikes. 343 00:16:13.167 --> 00:16:15.200 And you have the possibility of 344 00:16:15.200 --> 00:16:17.667 -- of Sunni militias. 345 00:16:17.667 --> 00:16:20.334 Yes. 346 00:16:20.334 --> 00:16:23.601 And you have a real opportunity, a real opportunity thanks to 347 00:16:23.601 --> 00:16:26.300 Secretary Kerry's very good work of having a political solution 348 00:16:26.300 --> 00:16:29.167 in Iraq that gets everybody's buy-in. 349 00:16:29.167 --> 00:16:32.234 So on Iraq you've got all the pieces you 350 00:16:32.234 --> 00:16:35.033 need to retake territory. 351 00:16:35.033 --> 00:16:37.667 I'm confident on the Iraq side that within a year, year and a 352 00:16:37.667 --> 00:16:40.534 half you're going to see major reversals for ISIS. 353 00:16:40.534 --> 00:16:43.200 Syria's side is completely different. 354 00:16:43.200 --> 00:16:46.067 But do you think they'll get the Sunni militias 355 00:16:46.067 --> 00:16:48.767 who are among those that we talked about earlier, who became 356 00:16:48.767 --> 00:16:51.501 disenchanted with the Iraqi government? 357 00:16:51.501 --> 00:16:54.667 So I think there's a very good chance they will, 358 00:16:54.667 --> 00:16:57.267 the only reason I'm hesitating slightly is because the 359 00:16:57.267 --> 00:16:59.734 political piece is not completely formed yet. 360 00:16:59.734 --> 00:17:01.834 There are still a couple of key posts that people 361 00:17:01.834 --> 00:17:03.667 are fighting over. 362 00:17:03.667 --> 00:17:05.534 And do they trust the United States? 363 00:17:05.534 --> 00:17:07.901 I think they do. 364 00:17:07.901 --> 00:17:10.000 I think they do. 365 00:17:10.000 --> 00:17:12.834 I think they actually, the Sunnis in Iraq actually see the 366 00:17:12.834 --> 00:17:15.868 United States as arguing on their behalf with the Shia 367 00:17:15.868 --> 00:17:19.601 government in Baghdad. 368 00:17:19.601 --> 00:17:22.634 So then we flip to the Syria side where it's much harder to 369 00:17:22.634 --> 00:17:26.334 see somebody who's going to fight for us -- right. 370 00:17:26.334 --> 00:17:30.701 The Free Syrian Army is disorganized, 371 00:17:30.701 --> 00:17:35.300 it's largely ineffective. 372 00:17:35.300 --> 00:17:39.834 They have grown more ineffective over time. 373 00:17:39.834 --> 00:17:43.834 Training and equipping them is going to be helpful but Charlie, 374 00:17:43.834 --> 00:17:47.100 it's not going to be as helpful as putting advisors with them. 375 00:17:47.100 --> 00:17:50.834 There had been no discussion about putting advisors with them 376 00:17:50.834 --> 00:17:53.901 obviously because we might have a much harder time protecting 377 00:17:53.901 --> 00:17:56.868 them in Syria. 378 00:17:56.868 --> 00:17:59.901 And it seems to be we're talking about fewer 379 00:17:59.901 --> 00:18:02.868 air strikes in Syria. 380 00:18:02.868 --> 00:18:05.367 There are reports this morning that the President is going to 381 00:18:05.367 --> 00:18:07.734 have to approve himself every air strike in Syria. 382 00:18:07.734 --> 00:18:09.767 That doesn't sound like there will be very many 383 00:18:09.767 --> 00:18:11.567 airstrikes in Syria. 384 00:18:11.567 --> 00:18:13.200 There has been 160 in Iraq so far. 385 00:18:13.200 --> 00:18:14.767 Why is that? 386 00:18:14.767 --> 00:18:16.434 I don't know. 387 00:18:16.434 --> 00:18:18.067 I don't know. 388 00:18:18.067 --> 00:18:19.701 It's a very good question. 389 00:18:19.701 --> 00:18:21.367 It sounds like you don't believe 390 00:18:21.367 --> 00:18:23.000 it's the right way 391 00:18:23.000 --> 00:18:24.801 to go, to have the President approving air strikes. 392 00:18:24.801 --> 00:18:26.834 Sounds like Lyndon Johnson and Vietnam. 393 00:18:26.834 --> 00:18:28.734 I don't know if it's accurate but that's the 394 00:18:28.734 --> 00:18:31.033 report this morning. 395 00:18:31.033 --> 00:18:33.901 So on the Syria side, I'm a lot less confident that they're 396 00:18:33.901 --> 00:18:36.801 going to get this done. 397 00:18:36.801 --> 00:18:39.234 And the problem with that is, you have this strong hammer on 398 00:18:39.234 --> 00:18:42.300 the Iraq side, and you have no anvil on the Syria side. 399 00:18:42.300 --> 00:18:44.968 So ISIS if pressed goes across the border into Syria and just 400 00:18:44.968 --> 00:18:47.667 hangs out there. 401 00:18:47.667 --> 00:18:50.267 So the Syria part of this is the -- is the -- is the weak, is 402 00:18:50.267 --> 00:18:53.367 the long pole -- 403 00:18:53.367 --> 00:18:56.767 It's also the essential part. 404 00:18:56.767 --> 00:19:00.267 It's the essential part. 405 00:19:00.267 --> 00:19:03.734 And I think to deal more effectively on the Syria side, 406 00:19:03.734 --> 00:19:07.133 we have to do -- we have to do a significant number of air 407 00:19:07.133 --> 00:19:10.534 strikes to go after ISIS and al Nusra. 408 00:19:10.534 --> 00:19:13.634 We have to go after the leadership which means getting 409 00:19:13.634 --> 00:19:16.400 the intelligence we need to do that. 410 00:19:16.400 --> 00:19:19.033 And we need to think about putting advisors with the free 411 00:19:19.033 --> 00:19:21.234 Syrian army because putting advisors with them will 412 00:19:21.234 --> 00:19:23.167 significantly strengthen them. 413 00:19:23.167 --> 00:19:25.300 And then we need to think about something else that nobody is 414 00:19:25.300 --> 00:19:27.734 talking about -- 415 00:19:27.734 --> 00:19:30.534 Which is? 416 00:19:30.534 --> 00:19:33.534 -- which is the guy who started this whole 417 00:19:33.534 --> 00:19:36.033 problem is Assad. 418 00:19:36.033 --> 00:19:38.968 He's the one who created the instability in his own country 419 00:19:38.968 --> 00:19:41.968 that allowed al Nusra and ISIS to become a problem 420 00:19:41.968 --> 00:19:44.934 in the first place. 421 00:19:44.934 --> 00:19:47.934 We need to talk about how do we get this guy out of there now, 422 00:19:47.934 --> 00:19:50.667 without weakening the Syrian military, the Syrian security 423 00:19:50.667 --> 00:19:53.167 services and the Syrian intelligence services. 424 00:19:53.167 --> 00:19:55.567 And getting the Russians and the Iranians 425 00:19:55.567 --> 00:19:57.868 somehow to allow it to happen. 426 00:19:57.868 --> 00:20:00.067 Right. 427 00:20:00.067 --> 00:20:02.234 You can't do it without them. 428 00:20:02.234 --> 00:20:04.100 You can't do it without them. 429 00:20:04.100 --> 00:20:06.000 Unless you take him out kinetically. 430 00:20:06.000 --> 00:20:07.667 Unless you target -- you target Assad personally. 431 00:20:07.667 --> 00:20:09.434 But getting rid of Assad -- 432 00:20:09.434 --> 00:20:11.267 You're an old intelligence agent, how would 433 00:20:11.267 --> 00:20:13.100 you do that? 434 00:20:13.100 --> 00:20:14.767 How did we get bin laden, you know? 435 00:20:14.767 --> 00:20:16.267 How did we take much of al Qaeda's leadership -- 436 00:20:16.267 --> 00:20:17.868 We would do that knowing that it might be known 437 00:20:17.868 --> 00:20:19.334 that we did it? 438 00:20:19.334 --> 00:20:20.934 Sure. 439 00:20:20.934 --> 00:20:22.634 We would have no problem with 440 00:20:22.634 --> 00:20:24.400 that, taking out Assad? 441 00:20:24.400 --> 00:20:26.234 I wouldn't have a problem with it. 442 00:20:26.234 --> 00:20:28.100 And we would be heroes in the Gulf, right? 443 00:20:28.100 --> 00:20:29.767 We would be heroes with our Gulf state allies. 444 00:20:29.767 --> 00:20:31.501 -- supporters of the Russians and the Iranians. 445 00:20:31.501 --> 00:20:35.167 What I'm saying is that -- 446 00:20:35.167 --> 00:20:37.067 -- is that Assad sits there -- 447 00:20:37.067 --> 00:20:38.968 So what do Russians do? 448 00:20:38.968 --> 00:20:40.934 I mean you had to calculate what's the consequence? 449 00:20:40.934 --> 00:20:42.667 Suppose Special Forces go in there and they take him out. 450 00:20:42.667 --> 00:20:43.968 What are the Russians going to do? 451 00:20:43.968 --> 00:20:45.667 There will be a lot of rhetoric, 452 00:20:45.667 --> 00:20:47.400 right, about U.S. 453 00:20:47.400 --> 00:20:48.968 intervention, lawless U.S. 454 00:20:48.968 --> 00:20:50.868 intervention but there's not much they can do. 455 00:20:50.868 --> 00:20:52.567 There's not much they can do. 456 00:20:52.567 --> 00:20:54.133 I don't believe. 457 00:20:54.133 --> 00:20:55.767 Is that a doable mission? 458 00:20:55.767 --> 00:20:57.601 I don't know. 459 00:20:57.601 --> 00:21:00.267 I don't know. 460 00:21:00.267 --> 00:21:02.601 But we need to be thinking about it. 461 00:21:02.601 --> 00:21:06.601 Because what he's going to start doing and what he's already 462 00:21:06.601 --> 00:21:09.434 doing is, in his mind, he's calculating two things -- Assad. 463 00:21:09.434 --> 00:21:12.234 He's saying the U.S. 464 00:21:12.234 --> 00:21:14.634 is going to go after 465 00:21:14.634 --> 00:21:17.033 >>ISIS in my country and the U.S. is going to go after al Nusra: 466 00:21:17.033 --> 00:21:19.467 And we don't like them a lot. 467 00:21:19.467 --> 00:21:21.868 So I'm going to put all of my focus on the 468 00:21:21.868 --> 00:21:24.267 moderate opposition. 469 00:21:24.267 --> 00:21:27.767 So in recent days he's already picked up the pace of his 470 00:21:27.767 --> 00:21:31.400 military operations against the moderate opposition. 471 00:21:31.400 --> 00:21:34.400 And he's calculating that, you know, if this ISIS thing and 472 00:21:34.400 --> 00:21:37.200 this al Nusra thing gets serious enough, maybe the United States 473 00:21:37.200 --> 00:21:39.567 will come around and see me as a solution to the problem, rather 474 00:21:39.567 --> 00:21:41.567 than the cause to the problem. 475 00:21:41.567 --> 00:21:43.467 But you can't imagine the United States doing 476 00:21:43.467 --> 00:21:45.334 that, can you? 477 00:21:45.334 --> 00:21:47.200 No, no. 478 00:21:47.200 --> 00:21:49.067 But I do know as people sitting 479 00:21:49.067 --> 00:21:50.968 at this table who 480 00:21:50.968 --> 00:21:54.434 you respect overall in terms of their foreign policy have said 481 00:21:54.434 --> 00:21:57.534 we have to do that. 482 00:21:57.534 --> 00:22:00.901 We have to in a sense hold our nose, right -- and let Assad be 483 00:22:00.901 --> 00:22:04.300 and go after ISIS and al Nusra. 484 00:22:04.300 --> 00:22:07.634 Right. And you know why I don't like that? 485 00:22:07.634 --> 00:22:11.601 Because you already have a guy who's killed thousands and 486 00:22:11.601 --> 00:22:14.868 thousands and thousands of his own people, displaced millions, 487 00:22:14.868 --> 00:22:17.801 a third of his population -- a brutal dictator. 488 00:22:17.801 --> 00:22:20.901 And most importantly, he is in the pocket of the Iranians. 489 00:22:20.901 --> 00:22:23.467 So Assad wins. 490 00:22:23.467 --> 00:22:25.901 The Iranians win. 491 00:22:25.901 --> 00:22:28.400 I don't want the Iranians to be the hegemonic power in the 492 00:22:28.400 --> 00:22:30.534 Middle East -- 493 00:22:30.534 --> 00:22:32.901 Nor do the Saudis -- 494 00:22:32.901 --> 00:22:34.934 Nor do the Saudis and the 495 00:22:34.934 --> 00:22:36.701 Emirates -- right. 496 00:22:36.701 --> 00:22:38.534 So if we shifted horses here, we would lose our 497 00:22:38.534 --> 00:22:40.400 friends in the Gulf. 498 00:22:40.400 --> 00:22:42.467 So -- 499 00:22:42.467 --> 00:22:44.367 So we can't change our policy on Assad. 500 00:22:44.367 --> 00:22:46.534 There's an alternative. 501 00:22:46.534 --> 00:22:49.133 There's an alternative to siding with Assad against ISIS and 502 00:22:49.133 --> 00:22:52.334 this is what I am saying. 503 00:22:52.334 --> 00:22:55.501 There is an alternative to siding with ISIS -- with Assad 504 00:22:55.501 --> 00:22:58.100 against ISIS and al Nusra, and that is getting rid of Assad, 505 00:22:58.100 --> 00:23:00.601 putting in power a Sunni who is going to take on those two 506 00:23:00.601 --> 00:23:02.934 groups and who is going to be our friend and not the friend 507 00:23:02.934 --> 00:23:04.968 of Iran. 508 00:23:04.968 --> 00:23:06.968 We need to be thinking about that. 509 00:23:06.968 --> 00:23:08.734 I'm not saying it's easy but we need to be thinking about that 510 00:23:08.734 --> 00:23:10.567 as a policy. 511 00:23:10.567 --> 00:23:12.400 Let me talk about other people in the region. 512 00:23:12.400 --> 00:23:14.067 Yes. 513 00:23:14.067 --> 00:23:15.801 Number one, the Iranians are saying today, 514 00:23:15.801 --> 00:23:17.601 President Rouhani said an interesting thing, you know, 515 00:23:17.601 --> 00:23:19.434 about the United States. 516 00:23:19.434 --> 00:23:21.067 He said, you know, they want to do this thing from the air but 517 00:23:21.067 --> 00:23:22.801 they don't want to take any risk. 518 00:23:22.801 --> 00:23:24.667 They don't want to take any risk, that's not 519 00:23:24.667 --> 00:23:26.667 acceptable to us. 520 00:23:26.667 --> 00:23:28.701 They don't have any people that they are risking. 521 00:23:28.701 --> 00:23:30.701 And they're asking to us do it, us people. 522 00:23:30.701 --> 00:23:33.367 What do you make of that argument? 523 00:23:33.367 --> 00:23:35.634 Does that have validity in the region? 524 00:23:35.634 --> 00:23:37.934 Yes, I think it does. 525 00:23:37.934 --> 00:23:40.167 I mean I think our friends in the region would like to see us 526 00:23:40.167 --> 00:23:42.467 do more. 527 00:23:42.467 --> 00:23:44.501 Our friends in the region would like to see us have those 528 00:23:44.501 --> 00:23:46.434 advisors with those front line troops. 529 00:23:46.434 --> 00:23:48.367 They'd like to see us do more with the 530 00:23:48.367 --> 00:23:50.767 Syrian moderate opposition. 531 00:23:50.767 --> 00:23:53.033 They would like U.S. 532 00:23:53.033 --> 00:23:56.334 boots on the ground in larger numbers. 533 00:23:56.334 --> 00:23:59.100 There are good reasons why we're not going to do that at the 534 00:23:59.100 --> 00:24:02.901 moment -- down the road, maybe. 535 00:24:02.901 --> 00:24:06.634 In your judgment are the Saudis, the Emirates 536 00:24:06.634 --> 00:24:09.901 doing enough? 537 00:24:09.901 --> 00:24:12.634 Those Sunni states that have either money or power or both. 538 00:24:12.634 --> 00:24:15.200 In this case, yes. 539 00:24:15.200 --> 00:24:18.100 They're doing enough? 540 00:24:18.100 --> 00:24:21.367 I think so. 541 00:24:21.367 --> 00:24:24.234 What are they doing? 542 00:24:24.234 --> 00:24:26.701 They have been providing money and weapons 543 00:24:26.701 --> 00:24:29.033 throughout this whole Syrian civil war to 544 00:24:29.033 --> 00:24:31.501 the moderate opposition. 545 00:24:31.501 --> 00:24:33.868 Some of those states -- 546 00:24:33.868 --> 00:24:35.868 Then why is the moderated opposition better? 547 00:24:35.868 --> 00:24:37.634 Because we haven't been doing enough. 548 00:24:37.634 --> 00:24:39.467 We or they or both. 549 00:24:39.467 --> 00:24:41.100 All of us. 550 00:24:41.100 --> 00:24:43.501 Right. 551 00:24:43.501 --> 00:24:46.133 We haven't been doing enough. 552 00:24:46.133 --> 00:24:49.501 It's been too small in scope. 553 00:24:49.501 --> 00:24:52.300 You know, you've got Nusra with 30,000 people, right? 554 00:24:52.300 --> 00:24:55.000 You've got the whole Syrian army which is 100,000 people. 555 00:24:55.000 --> 00:24:57.801 You need to be training more than a few hundred guys at a 556 00:24:57.801 --> 00:25:00.634 time, right. 557 00:25:00.634 --> 00:25:03.367 The scope of it needs to be much, much larger. 558 00:25:03.367 --> 00:25:05.901 They have been in the lead, those moderate Gulf States have 559 00:25:05.901 --> 00:25:08.033 been in the lead of trying to deal with this. 560 00:25:08.033 --> 00:25:11.200 And they've been wanting us to do more. 561 00:25:11.200 --> 00:25:14.501 So there is Iran. 562 00:25:14.501 --> 00:25:17.901 What role will they play? 563 00:25:17.901 --> 00:25:21.067 So Iran I worry will play the role of spoiler. 564 00:25:21.067 --> 00:25:24.033 So every time that -- that the coalition supporting the 565 00:25:24.033 --> 00:25:26.934 moderate opposition in Syria has done more, the Iranians have 566 00:25:26.934 --> 00:25:29.634 come in and doubled down on Assad. 567 00:25:29.634 --> 00:25:32.167 They - - they are desperate. 568 00:25:32.167 --> 00:25:35.234 Using Hezbollah and everybody they could find 569 00:25:35.234 --> 00:25:38.033 and even their own people. 570 00:25:38.033 --> 00:25:40.868 So they've brought Hezbollah into it. 571 00:25:40.868 --> 00:25:42.701 They've trained militias in Iran and brought them to Syria 572 00:25:42.701 --> 00:25:44.567 -- very effective Shia militias. 573 00:25:44.567 --> 00:25:46.434 And Suleimani is in Damascus. 574 00:25:46.434 --> 00:25:48.300 And they brought their own guys 575 00:25:48.300 --> 00:25:50.133 and Suleimani is 576 00:25:50.133 --> 00:25:52.868 in Damascus all the time advising Assad on 577 00:25:52.868 --> 00:25:56.133 what he should do. 578 00:25:56.133 --> 00:25:58.868 They do not want to lose Assad, why? 579 00:25:58.868 --> 00:26:01.567 Because they believe that they need Assad to have Hezbollah. 580 00:26:01.567 --> 00:26:03.901 That's the channel that all the weapons go 581 00:26:03.901 --> 00:26:06.667 through to get to Hezbollah. 582 00:26:06.667 --> 00:26:09.000 From Iran through Syria to Lebanon. 583 00:26:09.000 --> 00:26:11.300 Right. 584 00:26:11.300 --> 00:26:13.267 And Hezbollah is essentially a terrorist wing of 585 00:26:13.267 --> 00:26:16.434 the Iranian government. 586 00:26:16.434 --> 00:26:19.667 So when you look at -- what do you think worries 587 00:26:19.667 --> 00:26:22.367 the President the most? 588 00:26:22.367 --> 00:26:25.300 I think -- I think, let me say what I think 589 00:26:25.300 --> 00:26:27.767 should worry him if I'm not inside of his head. 590 00:26:27.767 --> 00:26:30.701 What -- 591 00:26:30.701 --> 00:26:33.167 If you find out who is, let me know. 592 00:26:33.167 --> 00:26:36.367 Yes. 593 00:26:36.367 --> 00:26:40.367 What I think should worry him is that, is that ISIS is the tip 594 00:26:40.367 --> 00:26:44.133 of the iceberg. 595 00:26:44.133 --> 00:26:48.267 And what I mean by that is if you think back, Charlie, to 596 00:26:48.267 --> 00:26:52.868 September 10th, 2001, al Qaeda was at one place in one place 597 00:26:52.868 --> 00:26:57.434 only on the planet, Afghanistan. 598 00:26:57.434 --> 00:27:01.834 Today al Qaeda is -- al Qaeda Islamic extremists are in 599 00:27:01.834 --> 00:27:06.033 northern Nigeria, up into the Sahel, Mali, Mauritania, Niger; 600 00:27:06.033 --> 00:27:10.434 across all of North Africa from Morocco to Algeria to Tunisia, 601 00:27:10.434 --> 00:27:15.067 to Libya where they are in huge, huge numbers, in Egypt 602 00:27:15.067 --> 00:27:19.534 where they are back for the first time in 25 years; down 603 00:27:19.534 --> 00:27:23.400 into east Africa in Somalia and increasingly in Kenya, across 604 00:27:23.400 --> 00:27:27.300 the Gulf of Aden into Yemen; up into Syria and Iraq, and still 605 00:27:27.300 --> 00:27:30.467 in South Asia and Pakistan, Afghanistan. 606 00:27:30.467 --> 00:27:33.067 A lot of fronts to keep an eye on. 607 00:27:33.067 --> 00:27:35.534 And Bangladesh now, they just announced a new 608 00:27:35.534 --> 00:27:37.634 cell in Bangladesh. 609 00:27:37.634 --> 00:27:39.734 So I think what -- 610 00:27:39.734 --> 00:27:41.534 Not to mention Asia. 611 00:27:41.534 --> 00:27:43.934 Right. 612 00:27:43.934 --> 00:27:46.767 Well, they've done a pretty good job in combating, 613 00:27:46.767 --> 00:27:51.267 they actually won. 614 00:27:51.267 --> 00:27:53.400 The Asians have done a pretty good job of rooting it out. 615 00:27:53.400 --> 00:27:55.501 So why I say tip of the iceberg, I think in that huge geographic 616 00:27:55.501 --> 00:27:57.601 area that I just talked about, you're going to see 617 00:27:57.601 --> 00:27:59.701 >>ISIS-like problems pop up over the next five years: This is 618 00:27:59.701 --> 00:28:01.834 the greatest foreign policy challenge for the 619 00:28:01.834 --> 00:28:03.934 United States to date. 620 00:28:03.934 --> 00:28:06.534 I think so. 621 00:28:06.534 --> 00:28:09.367 Not Russia, not China. 622 00:28:09.367 --> 00:28:12.100 I break down national security into threats 623 00:28:12.100 --> 00:28:15.267 to the United States, and challenges. 624 00:28:15.267 --> 00:28:18.634 The greatest threat to the United States without a doubt 625 00:28:18.634 --> 00:28:22.567 in my mind is Islamic fundamentalism. 626 00:28:22.567 --> 00:28:26.334 The greatest challenge to the United States is how do we deal 627 00:28:26.334 --> 00:28:30.100 with a rising China? 628 00:28:30.100 --> 00:28:33.801 How do we come to terms with a rising power in East Asia when 629 00:28:33.801 --> 00:28:37.300 we are the status quo power? 630 00:28:37.300 --> 00:28:40.234 When we need to have a good relationship with this country 631 00:28:40.234 --> 00:28:42.701 both for economic reasons and for national security reasons? 632 00:28:42.701 --> 00:28:44.767 Greatest threat, greatest challenge. 633 00:28:44.767 --> 00:28:46.567 Thank you for coming. 634 00:28:46.567 --> 00:28:48.167 It's always great to be here. 635 00:28:48.167 --> 00:28:49.767 Mike Morell. 636 00:28:49.767 --> 00:28:51.467 Back in a moment. 637 00:28:51.467 --> 00:28:52.167 Stay with us.