WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.501 New York City and a Democrat on the House Judiciary Committee. 2 00:00:02.501 --> 00:00:05.534 Congressman Nadler, thank you for 3 00:00:05.534 --> 00:00:08.701 joining us. Rep. 4 00:00:08.701 --> 00:00:11.801 >>JERROLD NADLER (D-NY): It's a pleasure. 5 00:00:11.801 --> 00:00:14.901 Tell me where we-- about this day and a sense 6 00:00:14.901 --> 00:00:17.734 of what it was like to be in the House and the anticipation of 7 00:00:17.734 --> 00:00:20.334 this arriving and where we 8 00:00:20.334 --> 00:00:22.968 go from here. Rep. 9 00:00:22.968 --> 00:00:25.701 Well, we were just-- the House was just 10 00:00:25.701 --> 00:00:28.267 reassembling today. 11 00:00:28.267 --> 00:00:30.801 We haven't been in session for a month, so 12 00:00:30.801 --> 00:00:33.567 people were just arriving. 13 00:00:33.567 --> 00:00:36.167 I just got here in mid-afternoon, after having a 14 00:00:36.167 --> 00:00:38.634 series of meetings in New York. 15 00:00:38.634 --> 00:00:41.334 But we did get the report, which is now in the hands of the 16 00:00:41.334 --> 00:00:44.334 sergeant-at-arms under armed guard. 17 00:00:44.334 --> 00:00:47.033 It's 36 boxes. 18 00:00:47.033 --> 00:00:50.000 We're told it's two copies, so it means 18 boxes per copy. 19 00:00:50.000 --> 00:00:53.167 There is, I gather, a 400- or 500-page report and the balance 20 00:00:53.167 --> 00:00:56.300 is appendices and supporting materials. 21 00:00:56.300 --> 00:00:59.434 Now, Mr. Starr in his transmittal letter to the 22 00:00:59.434 --> 00:01:02.300 speaker and the minority leader made it clear that much of this 23 00:01:02.300 --> 00:01:04.934 material is Federal Rule 6(e) material, that is material that 24 00:01:04.934 --> 00:01:07.734 by law, unless contravened by a vote of the House, 25 00:01:07.734 --> 00:01:10.734 must be kept secret. 26 00:01:10.734 --> 00:01:13.567 It's grand jury material. 27 00:01:13.567 --> 00:01:16.434 It represents statements which may or may not be true by 28 00:01:16.434 --> 00:01:19.634 various witnesses, salacious material, all kinds of material 29 00:01:19.634 --> 00:01:22.968 that it would be unfair to release. 30 00:01:22.968 --> 00:01:26.567 So, I assume what's going to have to happen before anything 31 00:01:26.567 --> 00:01:30.133 else happens is that somebody -- the staff of the Judiciary 32 00:01:30.133 --> 00:01:33.767 Committee, perhaps the chairman and ranking minority member -- 33 00:01:33.767 --> 00:01:37.300 is going to have to go over this material, at least the 400 or 34 00:01:37.300 --> 00:01:40.767 500 pages in the report to determine what is fit for 35 00:01:40.767 --> 00:01:44.334 release and what is, as a matter of decency and protecting 36 00:01:44.334 --> 00:01:47.801 people's privacy rights, people who may be totally innocent 37 00:01:47.801 --> 00:01:51.234 third parties, what must not be released at all. 38 00:01:51.234 --> 00:01:54.467 Now, the House Rules Committee will be meeting overnight, and I 39 00:01:54.467 --> 00:01:57.434 presume that we will vote tomorrow probably on a 40 00:01:57.434 --> 00:02:00.133 recommended rule as to how to handle the report. 41 00:02:00.133 --> 00:02:02.667 Why, then, are so many Democrats seeming to 42 00:02:02.667 --> 00:02:07.567 distance themselves from the president? Rep. 43 00:02:07.567 --> 00:02:10.234 Oh, I think people are distancing themselves 44 00:02:10.234 --> 00:02:12.968 from the president because, whether the president has-- 45 00:02:12.968 --> 00:02:15.968 whether we ultimately judge that the president has committed 46 00:02:15.968 --> 00:02:18.968 impeachable offenses or not, whether it's ultimately judged 47 00:02:18.968 --> 00:02:21.767 that he's committed any crimes or not, he's clearly engaged in 48 00:02:21.767 --> 00:02:24.567 very reprehensible, unfortunate and immoral conduct. 49 00:02:24.567 --> 00:02:26.734 And, you know, I could-- I could take the position -- I'm 50 00:02:26.734 --> 00:02:28.934 not taking any position at this point -- but depending what the 51 00:02:28.934 --> 00:02:31.133 evidence shows I could end up taking the position that, as a 52 00:02:31.133 --> 00:02:33.334 matter of law and defense of the 53 00:02:33.334 --> 00:02:35.534 Constitution and not overturning 54 00:02:35.534 --> 00:02:38.367 an election, he shouldn't be impeached and still think he did 55 00:02:38.367 --> 00:02:41.033 something pretty terrible, which I don't want to defend in an 56 00:02:41.033 --> 00:02:43.934 election campaign or any other forum. 57 00:02:43.934 --> 00:02:46.901 But do you sense-- I mean, a real-- 58 00:02:46.901 --> 00:02:50.000 Democrats turning away? 59 00:02:50.000 --> 00:02:52.801 I mean, that his support since the Senator Lieberman made 60 00:02:52.801 --> 00:02:55.400 his dramatic 22-minute speech on the floor of the Senate, that 61 00:02:55.400 --> 00:02:58.033 there has been a dramatic change in support for the president 62 00:02:58.033 --> 00:03:02.868 among Democrats? Rep. 63 00:03:02.868 --> 00:03:05.200 I don't know, and to be fair we just came back 64 00:03:05.200 --> 00:03:07.701 to the House today. 65 00:03:07.701 --> 00:03:10.534 I haven't had a chance to talk to a lot of people. 66 00:03:10.534 --> 00:03:13.133 I think that there was a dramatic change after the 67 00:03:13.133 --> 00:03:15.834 president admitted three weeks ago or so that he had lied to 68 00:03:15.834 --> 00:03:18.467 the Democratic members of the House and to the 69 00:03:18.467 --> 00:03:21.267 American people generally. 70 00:03:21.267 --> 00:03:24.167 So, now people are gonna distance-- and that he had this 71 00:03:24.167 --> 00:03:27.334 affair with Ms. Lewinsky. 72 00:03:27.334 --> 00:03:30.367 And clearly a lot of people are waiting and waiting for the 73 00:03:30.367 --> 00:03:33.133 other shoe to drop and to see not just what's in the report 74 00:03:33.133 --> 00:03:35.400 ultimately, but what facts come out and what the case is after 75 00:03:35.400 --> 00:03:37.667 the president has responded to the report and after whatever 76 00:03:37.667 --> 00:03:39.934 happens happens. 77 00:03:39.934 --> 00:03:42.200 Many people were making the 78 00:03:42.200 --> 00:03:44.434 point that today that 79 00:03:44.434 --> 00:03:46.868 arena shifts from the legal to political, but you're saying 80 00:03:46.868 --> 00:03:49.167 there's still legal considerations because you're 81 00:03:49.167 --> 00:03:51.434 talkin' about the Constitution and the 82 00:03:51.434 --> 00:03:53.601 impeachment process? Rep. 83 00:03:53.601 --> 00:03:55.734 Yes, I think impeachment is always a 84 00:03:55.734 --> 00:03:57.834 political process to some extent, but it has 85 00:03:57.834 --> 00:04:00.033 to be a legal process. 86 00:04:00.033 --> 00:04:02.634 I mean, when former president Ford, when he was minority 87 00:04:02.634 --> 00:04:04.968 leader of the House and was trying to get the late Justice 88 00:04:04.968 --> 00:04:07.367 Douglas impeached, he said, ''An impeachable offense is whatever 89 00:04:07.367 --> 00:04:09.934 the House says it is.'' And, in effect, he was implying that it 90 00:04:09.934 --> 00:04:12.334 doesn't have to meet high legal standards. 91 00:04:12.334 --> 00:04:14.767 I don't think we take that very seriously. 92 00:04:14.767 --> 00:04:17.400 To impeach a president is to undo and election, is to undo 93 00:04:17.400 --> 00:04:19.968 the sovereign will of the American people. 94 00:04:19.968 --> 00:04:22.634 It's a very serious step. 95 00:04:22.634 --> 00:04:25.634 The Constitution means it to be taken only in 96 00:04:25.634 --> 00:04:28.801 very unusual circumstances. 97 00:04:28.801 --> 00:04:31.701 And whether anything has been done that would necessitate our 98 00:04:31.701 --> 00:04:34.400 taking that very serious and very unfortunate and distasteful 99 00:04:34.400 --> 00:04:36.934 step remains to be proven. 100 00:04:36.934 --> 00:04:39.767 All right. 101 00:04:39.767 --> 00:04:42.400 For this-- for my own interest, let me review quickly the 102 00:04:42.400 --> 00:04:44.868 process takes place now. 103 00:04:44.868 --> 00:04:47.234 Overnight, that Rules Committee will be meeting to 104 00:04:47.234 --> 00:04:49.234 decide on a rule. Yes? 105 00:04:49.234 --> 00:04:53.267 Rep. 106 00:04:53.267 --> 00:04:55.267 To decide on a 107 00:04:55.267 --> 00:04:57.267 preliminary rule as to authorize 108 00:04:57.267 --> 00:04:59.601 some small group to look at this report, go through it, and 109 00:04:59.601 --> 00:05:01.868 presumably then to-- they would then come back to the Rules 110 00:05:01.868 --> 00:05:04.033 Committee and recommend another rule in a couple of days or a 111 00:05:04.033 --> 00:05:06.167 couple of weeks as to what should be done 112 00:05:06.167 --> 00:05:08.300 with the report generally. 113 00:05:08.300 --> 00:05:10.367 Now, the-- who will appoint the members of that 114 00:05:10.367 --> 00:05:12.434 group that will read the report and decide what-- 115 00:05:12.434 --> 00:05:14.467 (crosstalk) Rep. 116 00:05:14.467 --> 00:05:16.601 I assume the rule-- I assume the rule that 117 00:05:16.601 --> 00:05:18.934 the Rules Committee will recommend and that the House 118 00:05:18.934 --> 00:05:21.234 will vote on probably tomorrow would specify that. 119 00:05:21.234 --> 00:05:23.501 That would be either the speaker and the minority leader or 120 00:05:23.501 --> 00:05:25.901 perhaps the-- more likely the chairman and ranking Democratic 121 00:05:25.901 --> 00:05:28.267 member of the Judiciary Committee, or perhaps them and 122 00:05:28.267 --> 00:05:30.567 some of their staff people. 123 00:05:30.567 --> 00:05:32.767 That's what the Rules Committee is probably 124 00:05:32.767 --> 00:05:34.934 wrestling with tonight. 125 00:05:34.934 --> 00:05:37.133 If impeachment proceedings start, when would 126 00:05:37.133 --> 00:05:41.434 they likely begin? Rep. 127 00:05:41.434 --> 00:05:43.767 My own guess is probably in January because 128 00:05:43.767 --> 00:05:46.033 just-- I mean, you've got a 400-, 500-page report plus 30 or 129 00:05:46.033 --> 00:05:48.367 18 boxes of supporting documents. 130 00:05:48.367 --> 00:05:50.767 For anyone to go through the report and the documents and to 131 00:05:50.767 --> 00:05:53.267 understand them and to start making judgments as to what's in 132 00:05:53.267 --> 00:05:55.767 there is gonna take weeks. 133 00:05:55.767 --> 00:05:58.334 We only have five weeks for the session, another three weeks 134 00:05:58.334 --> 00:06:00.834 before the election, and this Congress is gonna go out of 135 00:06:00.834 --> 00:06:03.467 session at some point. 136 00:06:03.467 --> 00:06:05.934 I can't-- it would be very hard to imagine the House having time 137 00:06:05.934 --> 00:06:08.267 to do anything other than perhaps vote a resolution of-- a 138 00:06:08.267 --> 00:06:10.534 resolution that we should look into impeachment. 139 00:06:10.534 --> 00:06:12.868 So, what might-- Rep. 140 00:06:12.868 --> 00:06:15.100 To actually have the hearings, probably we'd 141 00:06:15.100 --> 00:06:17.267 have to have them after the election or after January. 142 00:06:17.267 --> 00:06:19.667 So, what is obvious is that the Judiciary 143 00:06:19.667 --> 00:06:21.934 Committee that considers impeachment proceedings might be 144 00:06:21.934 --> 00:06:24.167 a far different Judiciary Committee than we have today 145 00:06:24.167 --> 00:06:26.167 because the Congress will change 146 00:06:26.167 --> 00:06:28.100 in November. Rep. 147 00:06:28.100 --> 00:06:29.834 That may very well be the case. 148 00:06:29.834 --> 00:06:31.801 OK. 149 00:06:31.801 --> 00:06:33.767 Congressman Nadler, thank you very much for joining us. 150 00:06:33.767 --> 00:06:35.400 A pleasure to have you on 151 00:06:35.400 --> 00:06:37.033 the broadcast. Rep. 152 00:06:37.033 --> 00:06:40.767 Thank you. 153 00:06:40.767 --> 00:06:41.000 We'll be right back.