1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:01,501 In Love With Ideas 2 00:00:01,501 --> 00:00:03,234 David Lynch started as a painter, but his 3 00:00:03,234 --> 00:00:06,767 desire to make his paintings move brought him to filmmaking. 4 00:00:06,767 --> 00:00:09,667 He devoted four years to making Eraserhead, and his dedication 5 00:00:09,667 --> 00:00:10,901 paid off. 6 00:00:10,901 --> 00:00:13,968 That success led to The Elephant Man, which earned Lynch is first 7 00:00:13,968 --> 00:00:16,000 of two Oscar nominations. 8 00:00:16,000 --> 00:00:19,234 With Blue Velvet, Wild at Heart, and Twin Peaks, Lynch found his 9 00:00:19,234 --> 00:00:22,767 place as America's most viable avant-garde filmmaker, one of 10 00:00:22,767 --> 00:00:26,734 the few artists whose name is used as an adjective. 11 00:00:26,734 --> 00:00:29,601 His new film, Lost Highway, is a mystery that is thoroughly 12 00:00:29,601 --> 00:00:32,868 Lynchian, and he is also being honored with a retrospective at 13 00:00:32,868 --> 00:00:35,267 the American Museum of the Moving Image. 14 00:00:35,267 --> 00:00:38,334 And I'm pleased to have him here at this table for a 15 00:00:38,334 --> 00:00:41,234 consideration of the films and his life. 16 00:00:41,234 --> 00:00:42,234 Welcome. 17 00:00:42,234 --> 00:00:44,234 DAVID LYNCH, Filmmaker: Thank you, Charlie. 18 00:00:44,234 --> 00:00:46,234 It's great to have you here. 19 00:00:46,234 --> 00:00:47,234 Good to be here. 20 00:00:47,234 --> 00:00:49,267 Now, when people say ``Lynchian,'' what do they 21 00:00:49,267 --> 00:00:50,267 mean? 22 00:00:50,267 --> 00:00:52,267 I haven't got a clue. 23 00:00:52,267 --> 00:00:54,267 I think when you're inside of it, you can't see it. 24 00:00:54,267 --> 00:00:55,267 Yes. 25 00:00:55,267 --> 00:00:57,267 And so I don't know. 26 00:00:57,267 --> 00:00:58,267 Yes. 27 00:00:58,267 --> 00:01:00,267 When you think of those films that you have made, you know, is 28 00:01:00,267 --> 00:01:02,267 there a common denominator for you? 29 00:01:02,267 --> 00:01:05,167 I mean, is there some sense of some space you're trying to 30 00:01:05,167 --> 00:01:08,868 explore, and each film is an exploration of that? 31 00:01:08,868 --> 00:01:09,868 No. 32 00:01:09,868 --> 00:01:11,901 Each one I see as separate. 33 00:01:11,901 --> 00:01:18,234 I know there are things that tie them all together, but you start 34 00:01:18,234 --> 00:01:24,133 falling in love with ideas, and it starts forming a whole, and 35 00:01:24,133 --> 00:01:26,067 that's what you translate. 36 00:01:26,067 --> 00:01:30,467 And it feels like a brand-new thing each time. 37 00:01:30,467 --> 00:01:34,501 Have you, since '92, five years since you've 38 00:01:34,501 --> 00:01:37,801 made a film, been in search of an idea? 39 00:01:37,801 --> 00:01:38,834 Yes. 40 00:01:38,834 --> 00:01:47,968 The-- in '92, after Fire, Walk With Me, which is a film I love, 41 00:01:47,968 --> 00:01:52,267 but I think you could safely say it did not-- CHARLIE ROSE: 42 00:01:52,267 --> 00:01:54,501 Critics didn't love it. 43 00:01:54,501 --> 00:01:57,000 --go over so well, but I'm hoping that someday 44 00:01:57,000 --> 00:01:59,000 people will take another look at that film. 45 00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:07,634 But there seemed to be a strange dark cloud hanging over me. 46 00:02:07,634 --> 00:02:09,901 And through '94, it was sort of-- you know, maybe in '94 it 47 00:02:09,901 --> 00:02:13,534 started lifting. 48 00:02:13,534 --> 00:02:17,767 And-- but catching ideas is very tricky. 49 00:02:17,767 --> 00:02:20,634 It could happen tomorrow or it could happen next week, or five 50 00:02:20,634 --> 00:02:22,133 years goes by. 51 00:02:22,133 --> 00:02:27,334 So you have to stay alert and watchful, but you never know 52 00:02:27,334 --> 00:02:28,334 when it's going to happen. 53 00:02:28,334 --> 00:02:31,501 What was the dark cloud of the first two years? 54 00:02:31,501 --> 00:02:34,801 A feeling in the air that-- Sometimes you have 55 00:02:34,801 --> 00:02:39,567 green lights, and you can do no wrong, and sometimes they start 56 00:02:39,567 --> 00:02:45,334 turning yellow and maybe even red. 57 00:02:45,334 --> 00:02:47,467 And that was the feeling. 58 00:02:47,467 --> 00:02:51,167 So green light would have been after Blue 59 00:02:51,167 --> 00:02:54,501 Velvet, what, '86, '87, somewhere in there, and then 60 00:02:54,501 --> 00:02:57,167 Twin Peaks, that was a green light, you could do no wrong, 61 00:02:57,167 --> 00:02:59,167 and you were everybody's darling. 62 00:02:59,167 --> 00:03:03,234 Yes, Blue Velvet sort of kicked things in, and, 63 00:03:03,234 --> 00:03:10,467 you know, as you go up, you feel the upness is outside of you. 64 00:03:10,467 --> 00:03:13,968 You don't know exactly why, for some reason, people are taking 65 00:03:13,968 --> 00:03:14,968 you up. 66 00:03:14,968 --> 00:03:16,968 And the same way when you go down. 67 00:03:16,968 --> 00:03:19,367 You can't figure it, but it's happening. 68 00:03:19,367 --> 00:03:22,801 Do your powers of creation feel strong as when 69 00:03:22,801 --> 00:03:23,801 you're going up? 70 00:03:23,801 --> 00:03:25,801 I mean, does it-- DAVID LYNCH: No, they go-- they're the same. 71 00:03:25,801 --> 00:03:27,801 Has nothing to do with it. 72 00:03:27,801 --> 00:03:29,868 It has nothing to do with it. 73 00:03:29,868 --> 00:03:33,434 A depression can stop the creative process, but when you 74 00:03:33,434 --> 00:03:38,767 feel very good about your work -- which I did, except for Dune 75 00:03:38,767 --> 00:03:43,634 -- but when you feel good about it, the channels are, you know, 76 00:03:43,634 --> 00:03:44,634 open still. 77 00:03:44,634 --> 00:03:47,334 Dune, you said you felt-- you don't feel good about 78 00:03:47,334 --> 00:03:48,300 that. 79 00:03:48,300 --> 00:03:49,667 You're sorry you made that film. 80 00:03:49,667 --> 00:03:52,267 Not in real-- no, I learned an awful lot, and I, you 81 00:03:52,267 --> 00:03:54,434 know, loved Dino DeLaurentis and Rafaela [sp? 82 00:03:54,434 --> 00:03:56,534 ] DeLaurentis and all the people that worked on the film, and 83 00:03:56,534 --> 00:03:58,701 many good things came out of it. 84 00:03:58,701 --> 00:04:04,100 But overall, I didn't make the film I think I should have made. 85 00:04:04,100 --> 00:04:06,100 Well, what came out of it was, in a sense, 86 00:04:06,100 --> 00:04:09,334 lessons to avoid-- DAVID LYNCH: Next time. 87 00:04:09,334 --> 00:04:11,334 --the next time you go out. 88 00:04:11,334 --> 00:04:13,334 Exactly. 89 00:04:13,334 --> 00:04:16,300 Like final cut don't give it up. 90 00:04:16,300 --> 00:04:18,300 Exactly. 91 00:04:18,300 --> 00:04:21,067 So Dino gave me final cut for Blue Velvet, and away we went. 92 00:04:21,067 --> 00:04:23,801 All right. 93 00:04:23,801 --> 00:04:26,801 When you-- when you were looking for ideas, what were you looking 94 00:04:26,801 --> 00:04:28,801 for? 95 00:04:28,801 --> 00:04:31,334 I mean, what is it that-- is it something to fall in love with? 96 00:04:31,334 --> 00:04:33,334 Yes. 97 00:04:33,334 --> 00:04:40,234 Ideas-- you know, it's strange, because the idea is not there, 98 00:04:40,234 --> 00:04:45,901 and then suddenly the idea comes into your conscious mind. 99 00:04:45,901 --> 00:04:50,834 And it comes in like an electrical spark, and it's known 100 00:04:50,834 --> 00:04:53,033 in an instant. 101 00:04:53,033 --> 00:04:56,467 And then the next thing that could happen is you could fall 102 00:04:56,467 --> 00:04:58,467 in love with that idea. 103 00:04:58,467 --> 00:05:02,801 It may just be a fragment, but it could have implications to a 104 00:05:02,801 --> 00:05:04,801 whole world. 105 00:05:04,801 --> 00:05:09,934 It could be such an idea that it just pulls you, you know, and 106 00:05:09,934 --> 00:05:12,601 you want to go there. 107 00:05:12,601 --> 00:05:15,234 And those are the things you're looking for. 108 00:05:15,234 --> 00:05:17,534 What was the idea of Lost Highway? 109 00:05:17,534 --> 00:05:21,801 Well, actually, part of it was the two words 110 00:05:21,801 --> 00:05:25,667 ``lost highway,'' which Barry Gifford had written in his book 111 00:05:25,667 --> 00:05:27,667 Night People. 112 00:05:27,667 --> 00:05:30,934 And for some reason, those words made me dream. 113 00:05:30,934 --> 00:05:35,934 It wasn't any story, it wasn't any-- it was a possibility, and 114 00:05:35,934 --> 00:05:37,501 a dreamlike possibility. 115 00:05:37,501 --> 00:05:41,534 And then the last night of shooting Fire Walk With Me, I 116 00:05:41,534 --> 00:05:45,901 had a thing roll through my head which was an idea, but sequences 117 00:05:45,901 --> 00:05:46,901 of ideas. 118 00:05:46,901 --> 00:05:48,834 And not controlling it one bit. 119 00:05:48,834 --> 00:05:49,834 It unfolded. 120 00:05:49,834 --> 00:05:51,834 And I held that until Barry and I got together, and told him 121 00:05:51,834 --> 00:05:53,968 that, and he happened to like that, and the title and that 122 00:05:53,968 --> 00:05:58,133 idea was the starting point. 123 00:05:58,133 --> 00:05:59,767 And then you go from there. 124 00:05:59,767 --> 00:06:06,267 But a starting point focuses you in one area, and when you get 125 00:06:06,267 --> 00:06:10,400 focused, you become like a magnet, and you can together 126 00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:12,400 pull things out of a-- like a doorway. 127 00:06:12,400 --> 00:06:15,167 And they come out and show themselves to you. 128 00:06:15,167 --> 00:06:18,934 So if you find a starting point, then you can 129 00:06:18,934 --> 00:06:23,133 take the next step, and the next step-- DAVID LYNCH: Yes, the 130 00:06:23,133 --> 00:06:25,133 next step-- CHARLIE ROSE: --and the next step. 131 00:06:25,133 --> 00:06:27,133 --each step is easier [unintelligible]-- 132 00:06:27,133 --> 00:06:29,100 After you find one place to plant your foot for the 133 00:06:29,100 --> 00:06:30,100 first time. 134 00:06:30,100 --> 00:06:32,100 Yes, exactly right. 135 00:06:32,100 --> 00:06:34,100 And that's the idea that-- DAVID LYNCH: That 136 00:06:34,100 --> 00:06:35,100 starts the process, yes. 137 00:06:35,100 --> 00:06:37,100 --cements the process for you. 138 00:06:37,100 --> 00:06:39,100 Yes, exactly right. 139 00:06:39,100 --> 00:06:40,100 Yes. 140 00:06:40,100 --> 00:06:42,100 And is there a script in your mind by this time, or just a 141 00:06:42,100 --> 00:06:43,100 story you want to develop? 142 00:06:43,100 --> 00:06:45,100 Not the-- well, in the very, very beginning, 143 00:06:45,100 --> 00:06:47,100 there's neither a script nor a story. 144 00:06:47,100 --> 00:06:49,100 You just-- DAVID LYNCH: There's fragments. 145 00:06:49,100 --> 00:06:51,133 And the fragments-- CHARLIE ROSE: What was the fragment, I 146 00:06:51,133 --> 00:06:53,133 mean, other than the title Lost Highway? 147 00:06:53,133 --> 00:06:55,167 The-- a couple receiving videotapes-- CHARLIE 148 00:06:55,167 --> 00:06:58,400 At the doorway, and-- DAVID LYNCH: --and they went 149 00:06:58,400 --> 00:07:00,667 more each tape, and a fear arose. 150 00:07:00,667 --> 00:07:03,901 And-- CHARLIE ROSE: Yes, it's the invasion of their-- DAVID 151 00:07:03,901 --> 00:07:05,901 Right, what does it mean? 152 00:07:05,901 --> 00:07:06,901 --space. 153 00:07:06,901 --> 00:07:07,901 Right. 154 00:07:07,901 --> 00:07:09,868 So that is not a story. 155 00:07:09,868 --> 00:07:12,901 Some indications of some characters are there, but the 156 00:07:12,901 --> 00:07:19,000 fragments eventually hook themselves together and show you 157 00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:21,300 how they want to be arranged. 158 00:07:21,300 --> 00:07:24,801 Having completed this film, what is it about? 159 00:07:24,801 --> 00:07:28,834 That's-- Charlie, you know, it's-- a film is so 160 00:07:28,834 --> 00:07:32,334 many things, and you work for two years or more to get it to 161 00:07:32,334 --> 00:07:38,434 feel absolutely correct, as correct as you can make it. 162 00:07:38,434 --> 00:07:43,434 And then to translate two hours of an orchestrated thing into 163 00:07:43,434 --> 00:07:50,033 some words, especially when you don't have a gift for words, 164 00:07:50,033 --> 00:07:52,567 is-- you always fail. 165 00:07:52,567 --> 00:07:53,567 So I can't tell you. 166 00:07:53,567 --> 00:07:54,834 All right. 167 00:07:54,834 --> 00:07:56,834 I'll tell a little bit of the story. 168 00:07:56,834 --> 00:07:57,834 OK. 169 00:07:57,834 --> 00:07:59,834 Well, I-- we'll tell the story, and then-- 170 00:07:59,834 --> 00:08:03,734 there's a couple, Bill Pullman plays Fred, and his wife is 171 00:08:03,734 --> 00:08:06,601 played by Arquette-- DAVID LYNCH: Patricia Arquette. 172 00:08:06,601 --> 00:08:08,601 --Patricia Arquette. 173 00:08:08,601 --> 00:08:10,601 And all of a sudden, videotape's there, and then Fred 174 00:08:10,601 --> 00:08:12,767 eventually-- I'm-- I don't know where to stop telling the story, 175 00:08:12,767 --> 00:08:14,767 because we don't want to ruin the movie. 176 00:08:14,767 --> 00:08:15,767 Right. 177 00:08:15,767 --> 00:08:17,767 Fred ends up in prison, on death row-- DAVID 178 00:08:17,767 --> 00:08:18,767 Right. 179 00:08:18,767 --> 00:08:20,767 --and then goes through an amazing change, and 180 00:08:20,767 --> 00:08:21,767 out comes another character. 181 00:08:21,767 --> 00:08:23,734 And Richard Pryor's in this film. 182 00:08:23,734 --> 00:08:23,801 Right. 183 00:08:23,801 --> 00:08:26,033 And tell me about the-- well, let me take this 184 00:08:26,033 --> 00:08:26,767 clip. 185 00:08:26,767 --> 00:08:30,067 This is a clip, first clip, this is where Robert Blake-- you 186 00:08:30,067 --> 00:08:32,167 haven't seen him in a while, and he plays a fascinating 187 00:08:32,167 --> 00:08:33,000 character. 188 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:36,501 And he approaches Bill Pullman, who plays Fred Madison, at a 189 00:08:36,501 --> 00:08:37,501 party. 190 00:08:37,501 --> 00:08:39,501 And here is what they talk about. 191 00:08:39,501 --> 00:08:41,200 Roll tape. 192 00:08:41,200 --> 00:08:45,267 [``Lost Highway''] ROBERT BLAKE, Actor: We've met before, haven't 193 00:08:45,267 --> 00:08:46,267 we? 194 00:08:46,267 --> 00:08:51,400 BILL PULLMAN, Actor: I don't think so. 195 00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:52,467 Where was it you think we met? 196 00:08:52,467 --> 00:08:55,701 At your house. 197 00:08:55,701 --> 00:08:58,367 Don't you remember? 198 00:08:58,367 --> 00:09:02,400 As a matter of fact, I'm there right now. 199 00:09:02,400 --> 00:09:06,200 That's crazy, man. 200 00:09:06,200 --> 00:09:08,400 Call me. 201 00:09:08,400 --> 00:09:18,734 I told you I was here. 202 00:09:18,734 --> 00:09:29,000 How'd you do that? 203 00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:35,868 Ask me. 204 00:09:35,868 --> 00:09:41,467 I'm not sure if I hadn't said Robert Blake, people 205 00:09:41,467 --> 00:09:43,501 would have seen Robert Blake at first glance. 206 00:09:43,501 --> 00:09:44,501 Right. 207 00:09:44,501 --> 00:09:47,267 Can you tell me about casting Robert Blake, 208 00:09:47,267 --> 00:09:49,868 Richard Pryor, Bill Pullman? 209 00:09:49,868 --> 00:09:50,901 Sure. 210 00:09:50,901 --> 00:09:52,501 Go ahead. 211 00:09:52,501 --> 00:09:55,834 Well, we essentially started with Robert 212 00:09:55,834 --> 00:09:56,834 Blake. 213 00:09:56,834 --> 00:10:00,868 Talk shows have something to do with casting Richard Pryor and 214 00:10:00,868 --> 00:10:02,400 Robert Blake. 215 00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:05,767 I'd seen In Cold Blood, I admired Robert as an actor, but 216 00:10:05,767 --> 00:10:12,234 on, I think, the Carson show I saw this very independent, 217 00:10:12,234 --> 00:10:19,434 strong-willed, one-of-a-kind people, and I had a lot of 218 00:10:19,434 --> 00:10:21,267 respect, you know, for him. 219 00:10:21,267 --> 00:10:26,000 And always from then on wanted to work with him. 220 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:29,100 And the problem is, you have to get the right person for the 221 00:10:29,100 --> 00:10:31,100 right part. 222 00:10:31,100 --> 00:10:34,601 If the part isn't there, Robert doesn't come on board. 223 00:10:34,601 --> 00:10:40,067 So finally the part was there, and I called Robert, and he came 224 00:10:40,067 --> 00:10:42,067 over, and we had a great talk. 225 00:10:42,067 --> 00:10:47,367 He started acting when he was 3, as you know, and-- a million 226 00:10:47,367 --> 00:10:54,901 stories, incredible character, Robert Blake. 227 00:10:54,901 --> 00:10:55,901 Yes. 228 00:10:55,901 --> 00:10:57,901 I wanted him to wear some teeth, and-- but he 229 00:10:57,901 --> 00:10:59,901 said he couldn't put appliances in the mouth, he'd gag and 230 00:10:59,901 --> 00:11:00,901 become sick. 231 00:11:00,901 --> 00:11:02,868 So he came up with the ears. 232 00:11:02,868 --> 00:11:04,868 I wanted him to be pale, but then he did his ears and the 233 00:11:04,868 --> 00:11:07,901 hair, and-- CHARLIE ROSE: He became the character. 234 00:11:07,901 --> 00:11:09,901 --just-- just looked perfect, yes. 235 00:11:09,901 --> 00:11:10,901 Yes. 236 00:11:10,901 --> 00:11:11,901 Richard Pryor. 237 00:11:11,901 --> 00:11:23,267 I saw Richard Pryor on a talk show. 238 00:11:23,267 --> 00:11:25,634 I'd seen, you know, like everybody else, all the things 239 00:11:25,634 --> 00:11:28,934 he's done, and-- but something came through. 240 00:11:28,934 --> 00:11:37,067 He's had such dark experiences in life, and came out the other 241 00:11:37,067 --> 00:11:44,667 side and just had a greatness in him, and kind of a wisdom of 242 00:11:44,667 --> 00:11:45,767 life. 243 00:11:45,767 --> 00:11:51,501 And I just said, ``I want to know this person, I want to-- 244 00:11:51,501 --> 00:11:58,601 you know, love to work with him.'' And this came about-- the 245 00:11:58,601 --> 00:12:00,601 part was smalls enough that he could do it. 246 00:12:00,601 --> 00:12:02,601 He's in a wheelchair, and said he wanted to do it, and-- 247 00:12:02,601 --> 00:12:04,601 He wanted to do it. 248 00:12:04,601 --> 00:12:06,801 He wanted to do it, and-- CHARLIE ROSE: He has M.S., 249 00:12:06,801 --> 00:12:07,801 I think. 250 00:12:07,801 --> 00:12:08,801 Right. 251 00:12:08,801 --> 00:12:10,801 And so we finished what we had to shoot. 252 00:12:10,801 --> 00:12:12,801 And then I got him in the office of Arnie's Garage, where his 253 00:12:12,801 --> 00:12:14,801 character works, he owns it, and set up a premise, and he ad 254 00:12:14,801 --> 00:12:16,801 libbed for nine minutes on the telephone, which was-- CHARLIE 255 00:12:16,801 --> 00:12:17,801 Brilliant. 256 00:12:17,801 --> 00:12:19,767 --unbelievable, brilliant stuff. 257 00:12:19,767 --> 00:12:22,067 Robert Loggia. 258 00:12:22,067 --> 00:12:24,367 Robert Loggia wanted to play Dennis Hopper's 259 00:12:24,367 --> 00:12:28,634 part in Blue Velvet and came on a day-- we were testing an 260 00:12:28,634 --> 00:12:35,167 actress, and there were two people, a young guy to test for 261 00:12:35,167 --> 00:12:39,067 Kyle's part, and Robert Loggia to test with this actress for 262 00:12:39,067 --> 00:12:41,701 Dennis Hopper's part, Frank Booth. 263 00:12:41,701 --> 00:12:42,701 And I didn't get to Robert. 264 00:12:42,701 --> 00:12:44,701 And when I went out to tell him, you know, we had to shut down, 265 00:12:44,701 --> 00:12:45,701 he became very upset. 266 00:12:45,701 --> 00:12:47,734 And I never forgot how upset he got. 267 00:12:47,734 --> 00:13:02,734 And so it was sort of perfect that I saw the anger that he's 268 00:13:02,734 --> 00:13:09,701 sitting on, and it just made him perfect to play Mr. Eddie, Dick 269 00:13:09,701 --> 00:13:10,701 Laurent [sp? 270 00:13:10,701 --> 00:13:11,701 ]. 271 00:13:11,701 --> 00:13:13,667 Because you used Kyle a couple of times, should I 272 00:13:13,667 --> 00:13:15,801 assume you two are friends and-- DAVID LYNCH: We're friends, yes. 273 00:13:15,801 --> 00:13:18,067 --and you wish you had a part in this film for him? 274 00:13:18,067 --> 00:13:20,067 Always you get to know people so well working with 275 00:13:20,067 --> 00:13:25,534 them, and form friendships and see possibilities for other 276 00:13:25,534 --> 00:13:27,534 characters that they could play. 277 00:13:27,534 --> 00:13:31,200 It's just waiting for that part again. 278 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:33,634 And, you know, eventually, hopefully, it will come along 279 00:13:33,634 --> 00:13:35,634 for a lot of people I've worked with. 280 00:13:35,634 --> 00:13:37,634 How do you feel about the film now that it's 281 00:13:37,634 --> 00:13:38,634 done? 282 00:13:38,634 --> 00:13:39,667 I love it. 283 00:13:39,667 --> 00:13:40,534 OK. 284 00:13:40,534 --> 00:13:43,234 Rolling Stone has a picture of you, and this is what they say. 285 00:13:43,234 --> 00:13:45,734 ``Betrayal, sex, murder, deception, and nine-inch 286 00:13:45,734 --> 00:13:47,300 nails''-- has to do with this guy. 287 00:13:47,300 --> 00:13:50,367 But in fact, this same writer says it's the best thing you've 288 00:13:50,367 --> 00:13:51,901 ever done. 289 00:13:51,901 --> 00:13:53,901 Do you think it's close to the best work you've done? 290 00:13:53,901 --> 00:13:56,701 Do you feel it's as good as you have done? 291 00:13:56,701 --> 00:13:58,901 I don't-- CHARLIE ROSE: Don't measure one versus 292 00:13:58,901 --> 00:14:00,901 two, but-- DAVID LYNCH: --[unintelligible] judge-- 293 00:14:00,901 --> 00:14:01,901 judging. 294 00:14:01,901 --> 00:14:03,901 They're like children, and you can't really say that. 295 00:14:03,901 --> 00:14:04,901 All right. 296 00:14:04,901 --> 00:14:05,868 Another clip here. 297 00:14:05,868 --> 00:14:09,200 This is Robert Loggia who plays Mr. Eddie and suspects that-- 298 00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:15,100 also that-- Pete Dayton, played by Balthazar Getty, is the 299 00:14:15,100 --> 00:14:18,434 mechanic that's sleeping with his girlfriend, Loggia's 300 00:14:18,434 --> 00:14:20,434 girlfriend, Mr. ddie's girlfriend. 301 00:14:20,434 --> 00:14:23,501 Roll tape, here it is. 302 00:14:23,501 --> 00:14:27,367 [``Lost Highway''] ROBERT LOGGIA, Actor: I'm leaving the 303 00:14:27,367 --> 00:14:28,701 Caddy, like I told you. 304 00:14:28,701 --> 00:14:31,200 Think you could get a chance to give it a once-over today? 305 00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:32,200 BALTHAZAR GETTY, Actor: Sure. 306 00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:35,868 You want to pick it up later on, or in the morning? 307 00:14:35,868 --> 00:14:39,133 If you think you can finish it, I'll be back 308 00:14:39,133 --> 00:14:40,133 later today. 309 00:14:40,133 --> 00:14:41,334 It'll be done. 310 00:14:41,334 --> 00:14:43,334 You're my man, Pete. 311 00:14:43,334 --> 00:15:36,734 Tell me what David Lynch saw in the scene we just 312 00:15:36,734 --> 00:15:37,734 saw. 313 00:15:37,734 --> 00:15:39,734 What was in the director's head? 314 00:15:39,734 --> 00:15:41,133 That scene. 315 00:15:41,133 --> 00:15:42,200 Yes. 316 00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:45,234 Well, that's what it was in my head. 317 00:15:45,234 --> 00:15:47,267 The scene was in your head. 318 00:15:47,267 --> 00:15:50,067 Well, when you get ideas, a picture forms, a mood 319 00:15:50,067 --> 00:15:53,534 forms, sounds come. 320 00:15:53,534 --> 00:16:00,801 And the-- pretty much a feeling of a total thing appears. 321 00:16:00,801 --> 00:16:07,901 Then when you get into the-- each element, more things can 322 00:16:07,901 --> 00:16:08,934 appear. 323 00:16:08,934 --> 00:16:13,267 But basically, you know up front what you're going for, based on 324 00:16:13,267 --> 00:16:14,267 the ideas. 325 00:16:14,267 --> 00:16:16,267 Do you know who influenced you? 326 00:16:16,267 --> 00:16:20,434 I mean, people look at your work and they say, ``Hitchcock.'' 327 00:16:20,434 --> 00:16:24,267 They look at your work and say others. 328 00:16:24,267 --> 00:16:29,400 I think-- you know, I love Hitchcock, and there's 329 00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:30,701 many, many people that I love. 330 00:16:30,701 --> 00:16:37,501 But influences-- I-- for me have come from-- more from places and 331 00:16:37,501 --> 00:16:39,534 things I've seen in these places. 332 00:16:39,534 --> 00:16:40,534 Like? 333 00:16:40,534 --> 00:16:44,400 Philadelphia is maybe my biggest influence. 334 00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:45,400 How so? 335 00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:49,834 I was there at a time when the window was wide 336 00:16:49,834 --> 00:16:50,834 open. 337 00:16:50,834 --> 00:16:57,534 And what came in-- when the window is open, things come in 338 00:16:57,534 --> 00:17:01,601 kind of-- you're unprotected, and things hit you very 339 00:17:01,601 --> 00:17:02,601 powerfully. 340 00:17:02,601 --> 00:17:07,234 So what I saw, I've, you know, carried with me. 341 00:17:07,234 --> 00:17:08,934 What hit you? 342 00:17:08,934 --> 00:17:13,000 The wide range of human behavior. 343 00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:14,000 Yes. 344 00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:16,000 Twin Peaks was about small-town America. 345 00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:18,601 Blue Velvet is about small-town America. 346 00:17:18,601 --> 00:17:20,601 Lost Highway is about Los Angeles. 347 00:17:20,601 --> 00:17:22,601 A portion of it, yes. 348 00:17:22,601 --> 00:17:24,601 A portion of Los Angeles. 349 00:17:24,601 --> 00:17:29,334 It's-- a story appears-- again, the setting 350 00:17:29,334 --> 00:17:33,033 is-- comes with it. 351 00:17:33,033 --> 00:17:41,100 And a setting says a lot of things that are difficult to say 352 00:17:41,100 --> 00:17:42,100 in words. 353 00:17:42,100 --> 00:17:45,834 It gives you a lot of information, and it gives you a 354 00:17:45,834 --> 00:17:46,934 mood. 355 00:17:46,934 --> 00:17:51,300 And there again, if you turn the camera a little bit to the left, 356 00:17:51,300 --> 00:17:52,467 it would be wrong. 357 00:17:52,467 --> 00:17:54,467 You'd see something that broke that. 358 00:17:54,467 --> 00:17:57,400 But if you turn-- CHARLIE ROSE: Broke the mood. 359 00:17:57,400 --> 00:17:58,601 Broke the mood and made it incorrect. 360 00:17:58,601 --> 00:18:02,300 But if you turn it right there, it's talking to-- and saying 361 00:18:02,300 --> 00:18:05,667 it's-- exactly feels right. 362 00:18:05,667 --> 00:18:07,701 And so all of your location scouting, everything is to find 363 00:18:07,701 --> 00:18:09,033 that feeling. 364 00:18:09,033 --> 00:18:12,234 And sometimes on location scouting, you can't find the 365 00:18:12,234 --> 00:18:15,033 thing that appeared in your head, so you find the closest 366 00:18:15,033 --> 00:18:16,033 thing. 367 00:18:16,033 --> 00:18:18,033 And then you work to make that even closer. 368 00:18:18,033 --> 00:18:21,934 Sometimes on location you find new things that give you new 369 00:18:21,934 --> 00:18:22,934 ideas. 370 00:18:22,934 --> 00:18:25,601 And so that's part of the business of staying alert, 371 00:18:25,601 --> 00:18:29,601 because many things come in that affect the final thing all along 372 00:18:29,601 --> 00:18:30,634 the trip. 373 00:18:30,634 --> 00:18:33,634 So place is an important stimulus for you. 374 00:18:33,634 --> 00:18:36,267 Yes, it's one of the elements. 375 00:18:36,267 --> 00:18:37,934 But every element is important. 376 00:18:37,934 --> 00:18:42,267 When you-- when you're making the film, how 377 00:18:42,267 --> 00:18:46,901 much-- what kind of director are you? 378 00:18:46,901 --> 00:18:51,167 I mean, is it all sort of there and scripted and, you know-- and 379 00:18:51,167 --> 00:18:54,501 you adhere to this script, or are you a director who wants the 380 00:18:54,501 --> 00:18:57,534 actors, just in a sense, run with it and-- DAVID LYNCH: Well, 381 00:18:57,534 --> 00:19:05,000 no, I'm-- in the beginning, what you want is the actor to bring 382 00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:09,434 all their talent out in the correct way. 383 00:19:09,434 --> 00:19:12,334 So there's always a beginning. 384 00:19:12,334 --> 00:19:16,701 And in the beginning, you sit down and you start rehearsing a 385 00:19:16,701 --> 00:19:21,334 scene that may be a scene that illuminates that character the 386 00:19:21,334 --> 00:19:24,067 most, a good starting-point scene. 387 00:19:24,067 --> 00:19:25,601 And you rehearse it. 388 00:19:25,601 --> 00:19:29,834 And no matter what it is then, you've started, and then you 389 00:19:29,834 --> 00:19:33,267 talk, and then you rehearse and then you talk. 390 00:19:33,267 --> 00:19:39,267 And what you want is the person, like Bill, to lock into that 391 00:19:39,267 --> 00:19:43,400 same place you're locked into and catch this thing. 392 00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:47,801 And from then on, it all rolls out perfectly, or next door to 393 00:19:47,801 --> 00:19:48,801 perfectly. 394 00:19:48,801 --> 00:19:51,501 You're on the same page-- DAVID LYNCH: You're on 395 00:19:51,501 --> 00:19:53,501 the same-- CHARLIE ROSE: --you're on the same vision-- 396 00:19:53,501 --> 00:19:58,334 You're listening to the-- CHARLIE ROSE: --you're on 397 00:19:58,334 --> 00:20:00,300 the same wave, you're doing all the metaphors you can find. 398 00:20:00,300 --> 00:20:02,300 Exactly, but that's just a process of tuning in. 399 00:20:02,300 --> 00:20:04,300 And it happens with everybody on the crew to tune into this one-- 400 00:20:04,300 --> 00:20:05,300 and then you move as one. 401 00:20:05,300 --> 00:20:07,300 A couple of your actors are Dennis Hopper and 402 00:20:07,300 --> 00:20:08,300 NICHOLAS CAGE. 403 00:20:08,300 --> 00:20:10,334 Here's what they said about you-- DAVID LYNCH: Uh-oh. 404 00:20:10,334 --> 00:20:11,334 --on this show. 405 00:20:11,334 --> 00:20:12,334 Roll tape. 406 00:20:12,334 --> 00:20:14,334 DENNIS HOPPER, Actor: Because he's really a Boy Scout, David 407 00:20:14,334 --> 00:20:15,334 Lynch, he really is. 408 00:20:15,334 --> 00:20:17,334 Used to say, ``Now, this word here, when you say that word,'' 409 00:20:17,334 --> 00:20:19,334 OK, that word being the F-word-- CHARLIE ROSE: Right. 410 00:20:19,334 --> 00:20:22,501 --you know, ``when you say that word-'' 411 00:20:22,501 --> 00:20:24,000 Well, he wrote the script. 412 00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:26,300 I mean, David, do you know what it says or not? 413 00:20:26,300 --> 00:20:27,300 Yes, right. 414 00:20:27,300 --> 00:20:27,534 You know. 415 00:20:27,534 --> 00:20:28,133 But so anyway-- and he would say things, when you did a take 416 00:20:28,133 --> 00:20:29,200 right, he'd go, ``Peachy keen! 417 00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:29,968 Peachy keen! 418 00:20:29,968 --> 00:20:31,534 Solid gold,'' you know. 419 00:20:31,534 --> 00:20:32,868 Oh, yes, ``Okie-dokie.'' DENNIS HOPPER: 420 00:20:32,868 --> 00:20:34,567 And ``Okie-dokie,'' yes, right. 421 00:20:34,567 --> 00:20:38,434 So anyway, I said, ``The Boy Scout leader.'' He said, ``What 422 00:20:38,434 --> 00:20:39,133 is that?' 423 00:20:39,133 --> 00:20:41,133 ' And I said, ``Well, let me-- look at me, and I'll give you 424 00:20:41,133 --> 00:20:43,133 sense memory here and show you what an amyl nitrate or nitric 425 00:20:43,133 --> 00:20:45,100 oxide would look like,'' which disorients your mind for about a 426 00:20:45,100 --> 00:20:47,767 minute or two, and, like, you know, and so-- and give you this 427 00:20:47,767 --> 00:20:48,767 rush, and so on. 428 00:20:48,767 --> 00:20:50,767 So he looked at it, and said, ``Oh, that's wonderful, 429 00:20:50,767 --> 00:20:53,267 wonderful, do that.'' And I said, ``Then if you want to dub 430 00:20:53,267 --> 00:20:55,601 the voice in later, we can put that word-- voice in. 431 00:20:55,601 --> 00:20:58,334 But right now, I'm just thinking about the voice, and I can't act 432 00:20:58,334 --> 00:21:01,067 through it.'' He said, ``No, no, go ahead and do what you were 433 00:21:01,067 --> 00:21:03,601 doing.'' So I thought that was a great contribution to this film, 434 00:21:03,601 --> 00:21:05,634 which he had written and was directing. 435 00:21:05,634 --> 00:21:06,634 Yes. 436 00:21:06,634 --> 00:21:08,634 Until I thought one day-- I got alone just about 437 00:21:08,634 --> 00:21:09,667 a year ago, much later. 438 00:21:09,667 --> 00:21:11,667 I get alone, and I thought, ``You know something? 439 00:21:11,667 --> 00:21:14,467 If I would have played this part the way David Lynch had 440 00:21:14,467 --> 00:21:18,234 originally intended it, by just having my voice go, `Baby wants 441 00:21:18,234 --> 00:21:20,367 to-- nada nada nada--''' CHARLIE ROSE: It would have been all 442 00:21:20,367 --> 00:21:21,367 over. 443 00:21:21,367 --> 00:21:23,367 You know, I thought, wow, weird guy, this-- 444 00:21:23,367 --> 00:21:25,634 Frank-- but Frank Booth would have been even weirder than I 445 00:21:25,634 --> 00:21:26,634 thought, you know? 446 00:21:26,634 --> 00:21:28,167 So I don't know, you know. 447 00:21:28,167 --> 00:21:30,167 How about David Lynch? 448 00:21:30,167 --> 00:21:32,167 NICHOLAS CAGE, Actor: The same thing. 449 00:21:32,167 --> 00:21:34,167 In fact, he is a jazz musician director. 450 00:21:34,167 --> 00:21:36,934 I mean, he-- you never really know what you're going to do 451 00:21:36,934 --> 00:21:38,601 when you get to the set. 452 00:21:38,601 --> 00:21:42,467 You know, I remember one day he came to the set and he said, 453 00:21:42,467 --> 00:21:45,133 ``Nicholas, you're going to sing opera today.'' And I said, 454 00:21:45,133 --> 00:21:46,133 ``Well, what do you mean?' 455 00:21:46,133 --> 00:21:48,634 ' He says, ``Well, there's going to be a cotton ball under your 456 00:21:48,634 --> 00:21:51,934 bed, and I want you to have a bad dream and sing an opera song 457 00:21:51,934 --> 00:21:54,601 about the cotton ball.'' Just like that. 458 00:21:54,601 --> 00:21:57,701 And I said, ``Well, OK, man, let's do it, you know, OK.'' And 459 00:21:57,701 --> 00:21:59,701 I had to come up with-- CHARLIE ROSE: Because I'm an actor. 460 00:21:59,701 --> 00:22:01,701 --something-- yes, right, come up with an 461 00:22:01,701 --> 00:22:03,300 opera song. 462 00:22:03,300 --> 00:22:05,667 And I didn't feel stupid about it. 463 00:22:05,667 --> 00:22:08,334 I felt like this-- I mean, if this-- if it would work, it 464 00:22:08,334 --> 00:22:10,400 would be in the movie, you know. 465 00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:14,901 And he really believes that fun is a central-- I mean, that-- it 466 00:22:14,901 --> 00:22:18,334 sounds like a trite word, and it is a trite word. 467 00:22:18,334 --> 00:22:20,601 But you have to have fun, because if you're not having 468 00:22:20,601 --> 00:22:22,601 fun, the audience won't have fun. 469 00:22:22,601 --> 00:22:24,601 [unintelligible] by the way, very far. 470 00:22:24,601 --> 00:22:26,601 So what do you think of that? 471 00:22:26,601 --> 00:22:28,601 Well, I-- Dennis does a very bad impersonation. 472 00:22:28,601 --> 00:22:34,300 But Nicholas-- they're both so great, and you can't say enough 473 00:22:34,300 --> 00:22:39,033 good things about both of them. 474 00:22:39,033 --> 00:22:41,434 But, you know, it's part of what I saying of getting to know an 475 00:22:41,434 --> 00:22:44,200 actor. 476 00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:47,000 You see something one day, and get an idea. 477 00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:49,934 And Nicholas is pretty much fearless. 478 00:22:49,934 --> 00:22:54,868 And giving him a challenge, he just-- CHARLIE ROSE: To sing 479 00:22:54,868 --> 00:22:55,868 opera. 480 00:22:55,868 --> 00:22:58,767 --he just grabs-- grabs it. 481 00:22:58,767 --> 00:22:59,767 Yes. 482 00:22:59,767 --> 00:23:01,767 And he goes all the way. 483 00:23:01,767 --> 00:23:02,767 So does Dennis. 484 00:23:02,767 --> 00:23:05,067 And I've been very lucky to have worked with the two of them. 485 00:23:05,067 --> 00:23:07,234 Yes, but you just told me, as we were watching 486 00:23:07,234 --> 00:23:10,033 that conversation with Nicholas, it didn't make the film. 487 00:23:10,033 --> 00:23:12,367 No, it didn't make the film. 488 00:23:12,367 --> 00:23:14,033 But sometimes that happens. 489 00:23:14,033 --> 00:23:15,033 All right. 490 00:23:15,033 --> 00:23:19,701 There is a sense about you that you are prepared to go down the 491 00:23:19,701 --> 00:23:20,801 dark road. 492 00:23:20,801 --> 00:23:23,534 I think-- I like the idea of going down in. 493 00:23:23,534 --> 00:23:24,634 And everybody is like that. 494 00:23:24,634 --> 00:23:29,801 Everybody is a detective. 495 00:23:29,801 --> 00:23:36,367 The unknown is a magnet. 496 00:23:36,367 --> 00:23:40,567 And you can learn many, many things by going down in there. 497 00:23:40,567 --> 00:23:45,767 And-- but it doesn't negate a bright road either. 498 00:23:45,767 --> 00:23:48,367 A film is made up of contrasts. 499 00:23:48,367 --> 00:23:56,067 And, you know, knowledge and experience of combined opposites 500 00:23:56,067 --> 00:23:57,467 is sort of what it's all about. 501 00:23:57,467 --> 00:23:58,467 Yes. 502 00:23:58,467 --> 00:24:00,467 But the mystery is what turns you on. 503 00:24:00,467 --> 00:24:02,434 Mysteries-- we love mysteries. 504 00:24:02,434 --> 00:24:03,434 Yes. 505 00:24:03,434 --> 00:24:05,434 Life is filled with them. 506 00:24:05,434 --> 00:24:07,434 And some of them are very abstract. 507 00:24:07,434 --> 00:24:12,634 And in all this, are you exploring your fears, 508 00:24:12,634 --> 00:24:15,501 your hopes, your dreams-- I don't mean in dreams for 509 00:24:15,501 --> 00:24:19,868 position or accomplishment, but just what wild things are 510 00:24:19,868 --> 00:24:21,000 happening inside your head? 511 00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:23,100 That's a tough one. 512 00:24:23,100 --> 00:24:33,234 I think it's-- it has so much to do with love and cinema, the 513 00:24:33,234 --> 00:24:35,167 marriage of ideas with film. 514 00:24:35,167 --> 00:24:42,734 There comes this possibility in this world that you're going 515 00:24:42,734 --> 00:24:46,968 into to experiment and learn and experience. 516 00:24:46,968 --> 00:24:48,968 It's an experience that you're building. 517 00:24:48,968 --> 00:24:51,300 The-- let me go back to, and let's talk a little 518 00:24:51,300 --> 00:24:53,634 bit about Eraserhead, your first film. 519 00:24:53,634 --> 00:24:57,300 I'm going to pick up on a lot of them here. 520 00:24:57,300 --> 00:24:59,300 That was-- tell me about that. 521 00:24:59,300 --> 00:25:00,300 Eraserhead? 522 00:25:00,300 --> 00:25:03,300 Yes, that was a long time ago. 523 00:25:03,300 --> 00:25:06,968 When was it, 19-- DAVID LYNCH: Well, I started it-- CHARLIE 524 00:25:06,968 --> 00:25:09,834 One thing we say about it, Jack Nance was there, who died 525 00:25:09,834 --> 00:25:10,968 recently-- DAVID LYNCH: Right. 526 00:25:10,968 --> 00:25:13,300 --and someone you loved a lot. 527 00:25:13,300 --> 00:25:14,267 Yes, I've known Jack for 25 years. 528 00:25:14,267 --> 00:25:16,834 I met him late in '71, I believe. 529 00:25:16,834 --> 00:25:20,467 And a great human being, great actor. 530 00:25:20,467 --> 00:25:25,634 And I consider him one of my best friends. 531 00:25:25,634 --> 00:25:29,868 So-- and I had-- he was in almost every film I've made. 532 00:25:29,868 --> 00:25:34,734 And it's going to be tough, because here is a guy that gave 533 00:25:34,734 --> 00:25:39,067 me ideas for many, many characters. 534 00:25:39,067 --> 00:25:43,734 And I just think about him, and a character would, you know, 535 00:25:43,734 --> 00:25:48,300 almost-- I-- would appear. 536 00:25:48,300 --> 00:25:52,767 Roll tape. 537 00:25:52,767 --> 00:26:17,801 This is Eraserhead with Jack Nance. 538 00:26:17,801 --> 00:26:51,033 [``Eraserhead''] JACK NANCE, Actor: Oh, you are sick! 539 00:26:51,033 --> 00:26:51,968 As we were watching that, and went to the 540 00:26:51,968 --> 00:26:54,033 thermometer, which said 98.6, and you said, ``Completely 541 00:26:54,033 --> 00:26:58,400 normal,'' and the whole idea was-- Do you ever listen to 542 00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:01,868 laser disc now, made by-- and do a-- directors' comments are on 543 00:27:01,868 --> 00:27:02,601 the film. 544 00:27:02,601 --> 00:27:03,601 Have you done that? 545 00:27:03,601 --> 00:27:04,667 No, I haven't, no. 546 00:27:04,667 --> 00:27:05,667 Yes, it was fascinating to hear what the 547 00:27:05,667 --> 00:27:07,868 director-- just-- you know, the kind of thing we just saw is 548 00:27:07,868 --> 00:27:09,934 what you would have seen, you know, at the-- you know, at one 549 00:27:09,934 --> 00:27:10,734 of the tracks. 550 00:27:10,734 --> 00:27:11,734 The next film I want to talk about is The Elephant Man. 551 00:27:11,734 --> 00:27:16,734 Here is where Mel Brooks gave you a shot. 552 00:27:16,734 --> 00:27:21,734 You bet he did. 553 00:27:21,734 --> 00:27:26,734 He saw something in Eraserhead he liked. 554 00:27:26,734 --> 00:27:32,400 He did, and, I mean, a hundred people with 555 00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:38,667 money and who are producers could have seen Eraserhead and 556 00:27:38,667 --> 00:27:42,934 all of them but Mel, I think, would have refused to meet with 557 00:27:42,934 --> 00:27:46,934 me. 558 00:27:46,934 --> 00:27:51,767 Roll tape, Elephant Man, David Lynch 559 00:27:51,767 --> 00:27:56,334 nominated for best director for the Academy Award. 560 00:27:56,334 --> 00:28:00,968 Right. 561 00:28:00,968 --> 00:28:10,734 Here it is. 562 00:28:10,734 --> 00:28:18,067 [``The Elephant Man''] ACTOR: I am not an animal! 563 00:28:18,067 --> 00:28:24,200 I am not an animal! 564 00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:30,300 I am a human being! 565 00:28:30,300 --> 00:28:38,868 Mr. Green, sir, they've found him. 566 00:28:38,868 --> 00:28:45,834 I think they've found John. 567 00:28:45,834 --> 00:28:48,100 Elephant Man, did it signal anything for you, in a 568 00:28:48,100 --> 00:28:52,367 sense, I mean, a sense that-- of confidence, a sense that-- I 569 00:28:52,367 --> 00:28:57,634 mean, ``I'm doing something that I know and like and enjoy and 570 00:28:57,634 --> 00:29:00,767 love and I'm beginning to get my hands around it''? 571 00:29:00,767 --> 00:29:04,934 It was a blessed film, and how I came to be part 572 00:29:04,934 --> 00:29:11,567 of it was something-- it's just-- the feeling of fate 573 00:29:11,567 --> 00:29:16,367 playing a part is there so strongly in that film. 574 00:29:16,367 --> 00:29:25,234 And, you know, it's just a gift. 575 00:29:25,234 --> 00:29:30,367 A gift, that you had the opportunity-- DAVID 576 00:29:30,367 --> 00:29:32,367 To do-- CHARLIE ROSE: --to do it. 577 00:29:32,367 --> 00:29:33,334 To do it, yes. 578 00:29:33,334 --> 00:29:34,334 Yes. 579 00:29:34,334 --> 00:29:35,334 Final cut? 580 00:29:35,334 --> 00:29:36,334 Yes. 581 00:29:36,334 --> 00:29:38,334 Well, Mel had final cut, but-- CHARLIE ROSE: But he-- DAVID 582 00:29:38,334 --> 00:29:40,334 --in effect, he gave it to me. 583 00:29:40,334 --> 00:29:42,334 And Mel was very, very happy, very supportive. 584 00:29:42,334 --> 00:29:49,000 Mel Brooks is-- he's a complicated genius. 585 00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:54,267 He's-- I think a lot of the great comedians must have a 586 00:29:54,267 --> 00:29:56,968 genius, you know, in them. 587 00:29:56,968 --> 00:30:02,868 The knowledge of human behavior, to make things funny, and the 588 00:30:02,868 --> 00:30:09,267 knowledge of human behavior is so great in Mel that he saw and 589 00:30:09,267 --> 00:30:13,901 appreciated this whole thing completely and was very 590 00:30:13,901 --> 00:30:18,767 instrumental in how all the pieces were, you know, put 591 00:30:18,767 --> 00:30:21,434 together, and like I said, was a huge supporter. 592 00:30:21,434 --> 00:30:23,834 Have you ever wanted to make comedy? 593 00:30:23,834 --> 00:30:24,834 Yes. 594 00:30:24,834 --> 00:30:26,033 Can you do it? 595 00:30:26,033 --> 00:30:30,067 I've made some attempts, but-- I'm very 596 00:30:30,067 --> 00:30:31,834 interested in humor. 597 00:30:31,834 --> 00:30:36,634 I'm interested in a humor that can sit next door to horror or 598 00:30:36,634 --> 00:30:38,067 fear or something more serious. 599 00:30:38,067 --> 00:30:49,067 And an out-and-out comedy, even though I've written them, I 600 00:30:49,067 --> 00:30:54,701 somehow keep myself from following through and doing it. 601 00:30:54,701 --> 00:30:56,767 And like they say, comedy is like mathematics. 602 00:30:56,767 --> 00:30:59,367 Two and two make four, this and this make a laugh. 603 00:30:59,367 --> 00:31:01,334 And it's no-- you can't make a mistake. 604 00:31:01,334 --> 00:31:04,601 It's-- I think it-- it's-- the-- in a-- for instance, the Academy 605 00:31:04,601 --> 00:31:07,634 Awards, they're the least likely to get nominated, but maybe the 606 00:31:07,634 --> 00:31:11,100 hardest thing to do is a comedy that works. 607 00:31:11,100 --> 00:31:14,567 Mel Brooks can-- is eloquent about how 608 00:31:14,567 --> 00:31:18,300 difficult-- Mel-- you know, there's a great story about when 609 00:31:18,300 --> 00:31:22,400 his wife comes home one day and she talks about how bad it is at 610 00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:25,400 the office. 611 00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:28,234 And he's sitting-- he walks over to where the typewriter is and 612 00:31:28,234 --> 00:31:30,968 he said, ``This is a bad day.'' DAVID LYNCH: Right. 613 00:31:30,968 --> 00:31:32,968 Right. 614 00:31:32,968 --> 00:31:35,267 Blue Velvet, before we go to the clip, you 615 00:31:35,267 --> 00:31:39,968 are fascinated, or you want us to say and know that in the most 616 00:31:39,968 --> 00:31:44,501 ordinary of places, there are incredible things going on 617 00:31:44,501 --> 00:31:50,467 behind closed curtains, that among the most normal appearing, 618 00:31:50,467 --> 00:31:53,033 there is wildness, obsession. 619 00:31:53,033 --> 00:31:55,033 What? 620 00:31:55,033 --> 00:32:05,567 Always a doorway or curtains kick in the 621 00:32:05,567 --> 00:32:11,067 imagination, and they just do that. 622 00:32:11,067 --> 00:32:13,834 You begin to wonder what is on the other side of the door. 623 00:32:13,834 --> 00:32:17,934 What is going to happen when those curtains open? 624 00:32:17,934 --> 00:32:21,701 And it starts a process going. 625 00:32:21,701 --> 00:32:27,167 Everybody in the world, because we love mysteries, and we're 626 00:32:27,167 --> 00:32:32,200 fascinated by all types of human behavior, we would love to float 627 00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:37,334 into rooms and observe, not to cause harm, but to learn more, 628 00:32:37,334 --> 00:32:45,834 and to see how much the same or how different we are. 629 00:32:45,834 --> 00:32:52,234 And it's-- there's always the surface of things, but we sense 630 00:32:52,234 --> 00:32:54,667 many times more than what we see. 631 00:32:54,667 --> 00:32:58,968 And these sensing pull you in, and you want to know. 632 00:32:58,968 --> 00:33:01,868 And so there you go. 633 00:33:01,868 --> 00:33:05,200 And the character of Frank Booth. 634 00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:10,767 I think one time I was in a place and I saw this 635 00:33:10,767 --> 00:33:12,767 person that came in. 636 00:33:12,767 --> 00:33:16,167 I-- it's hard to remember, because Frank is-- probably 637 00:33:16,167 --> 00:33:19,234 several things maybe came together. 638 00:33:19,234 --> 00:33:26,868 But this one person I remember seeing might have been the seed 639 00:33:26,868 --> 00:33:28,133 for Frank. 640 00:33:28,133 --> 00:33:33,300 When I saw him, I saw him doing Franklike things. 641 00:33:33,300 --> 00:33:35,300 What was it-- DAVID LYNCH: I think it was- 642 00:33:35,300 --> 00:33:37,300 --what did he do, and what was it about him? 643 00:33:37,300 --> 00:33:42,667 He-- it was in-- it was-- I think in the '70s at a 644 00:33:42,667 --> 00:33:45,701 place called Bob's Big Boy restaurant. 645 00:33:45,701 --> 00:33:47,334 You just saw him? 646 00:33:47,334 --> 00:33:49,334 I think it was on Highland Avenue. 647 00:33:49,334 --> 00:33:53,734 Yes, and I saw him, and there-- there he-- there it was. 648 00:33:53,734 --> 00:33:56,634 All right. 649 00:33:56,634 --> 00:33:59,834 Roll tape, Blue Velvet, Dennis Hopper. 650 00:33:59,834 --> 00:34:01,834 [``Blue Velvet''] DENNIS HOPPER: Ooh, ooh. 651 00:34:01,834 --> 00:34:03,300 Ooh, what's the matter? 652 00:34:03,300 --> 00:34:05,467 Ooh, ooh, peel them back. 653 00:34:05,467 --> 00:34:06,834 Ooh, oh, what's the matter? 654 00:34:06,834 --> 00:34:08,834 It's just a little red, that's all. 655 00:34:08,834 --> 00:34:10,200 Ooh, here, let me feel them. 656 00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:18,400 Oh, come here, ohhh-- KYLE McLACHLAN, Actor: Hey, leave her 657 00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:19,567 alone! 658 00:34:19,567 --> 00:34:23,300 Oh, damn. 659 00:34:23,300 --> 00:34:24,334 Next! 660 00:34:24,334 --> 00:34:27,334 You, out of the car! 661 00:34:27,334 --> 00:34:29,701 Get him out of the car, Raymond! 662 00:34:29,701 --> 00:34:55,934 Frank, Frank, he didn't mean it! 663 00:34:55,934 --> 00:34:57,100 Shut up! 664 00:34:57,100 --> 00:34:58,100 Shut up! 665 00:34:58,100 --> 00:34:59,100 Pretty, pretty, pretty, pretty. 666 00:34:59,100 --> 00:35:00,100 Ohhh! 667 00:35:00,100 --> 00:35:01,100 Frank! 668 00:35:01,100 --> 00:35:02,100 Frank, leave him alone! 669 00:35:02,100 --> 00:35:03,100 Frank! 670 00:35:03,100 --> 00:35:04,100 Frank! 671 00:35:04,100 --> 00:35:06,100 Dennis was perfect, I said, during that, 672 00:35:06,100 --> 00:35:07,667 and you said-- DAVID LYNCH: Right. 673 00:35:07,667 --> 00:35:08,968 Dennis is born to play Frank Booth. 674 00:35:08,968 --> 00:35:10,100 That's what he told me on the phone. 675 00:35:10,100 --> 00:35:14,834 We'd talked about Dennis, and as everybody knows, Dennis had some 676 00:35:14,834 --> 00:35:16,834 problems with drugs and alcohol. 677 00:35:16,834 --> 00:35:18,834 Yes, as Dennis frequently tells us. 678 00:35:18,834 --> 00:35:20,834 Right. 679 00:35:20,834 --> 00:35:26,834 And so even though-- I was thinking about Dennis, but I 680 00:35:26,834 --> 00:35:33,400 think his manager called up and said, ``You know, Dennis is, you 681 00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:38,601 know, on the wagon, and he just finished a picture, and it went 682 00:35:38,601 --> 00:35:42,601 great,'' and so I began to open up, you know. 683 00:35:42,601 --> 00:35:45,701 But when Dennis called me, and he says, ``I have to play Frank 684 00:35:45,701 --> 00:35:49,067 Booth because I am Frank Booth,'' that, of course, did 685 00:35:49,067 --> 00:35:50,067 it. 686 00:35:50,067 --> 00:35:51,133 Sold it. 687 00:35:51,133 --> 00:35:53,400 And more-- truer words have never been spoken. 688 00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:54,400 Yes. 689 00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:57,734 What comes out of your stories is amazing ways that actors end 690 00:35:57,734 --> 00:36:00,300 up in your films, not because of some performance. 691 00:36:00,300 --> 00:36:04,801 Dennis says, ``I am Frank Booth.'' Loggia throws a fit 692 00:36:04,801 --> 00:36:07,801 because it's Dennis and not him, and you remember that-- DAVID 693 00:36:07,801 --> 00:36:08,801 Right. 694 00:36:08,801 --> 00:36:10,801 --the next time out. 695 00:36:10,801 --> 00:36:11,801 Right. 696 00:36:11,801 --> 00:36:14,734 Do you have-- what's your self-image of 697 00:36:14,734 --> 00:36:15,734 yourself? 698 00:36:15,734 --> 00:36:18,767 I mean, Dennis said-- I mean, was it Dennis said Boy Scout. 699 00:36:18,767 --> 00:36:21,467 And they say you use these words like, ``Oh, great,'' and 700 00:36:21,467 --> 00:36:22,667 ``Terrific,'' and, you know. 701 00:36:22,667 --> 00:36:24,667 You know, many people use ``Oh, great,'' 702 00:36:24,667 --> 00:36:26,667 [unintelligible] CHARLIE ROSE: Yes, I know, it's true, but-- 703 00:36:26,667 --> 00:36:28,667 We have, all of us-- CHARLIE ROSE: That doesn't 704 00:36:28,667 --> 00:36:29,667 define Boy Scout, does it? 705 00:36:29,667 --> 00:36:30,667 Right. 706 00:36:30,667 --> 00:36:34,167 All of us have, again, our surface, and our persona, the 707 00:36:34,167 --> 00:36:36,033 personality, rather. 708 00:36:36,033 --> 00:36:44,601 And the personality is almost like a-- it sometimes-- you just 709 00:36:44,601 --> 00:36:48,801 wish it wasn't there, because it's causing you to act in 710 00:36:48,801 --> 00:36:52,901 strange ways when underneath that is something else. 711 00:36:52,901 --> 00:36:57,033 And so you-- we all have the feeling-- we get-- we meet 712 00:36:57,033 --> 00:37:00,100 somebody and we have our first impression, and little by little 713 00:37:00,100 --> 00:37:02,801 by little we see something else. 714 00:37:02,801 --> 00:37:05,701 And the more you get to know somebody, the deeper you go, and 715 00:37:05,701 --> 00:37:08,501 you realize that many things-- that's the way Jack Nance was. 716 00:37:08,501 --> 00:37:10,968 Many, many, many depths and powerful thinking was going on 717 00:37:10,968 --> 00:37:11,968 inside this man. 718 00:37:11,968 --> 00:37:18,934 Francis Bacon, I will see-- if I went and looked 719 00:37:18,934 --> 00:37:23,534 at the paintings of Francis Bacon, would I see something 720 00:37:23,534 --> 00:37:26,367 there that reminded me of a David Lynch film, or vice versa? 721 00:37:26,367 --> 00:37:32,501 Probably. 722 00:37:32,501 --> 00:37:52,767 You know, those paintings are about struggle, torture, horror, 723 00:37:52,767 --> 00:37:55,734 and-- but maybe much more than that. 724 00:37:55,734 --> 00:37:59,734 There's something-- it-- again, the initial image is one thing, 725 00:37:59,734 --> 00:38:03,534 but then something else comes through the paint, and it almost 726 00:38:03,534 --> 00:38:04,734 could be exalted. 727 00:38:04,734 --> 00:38:08,133 It could be a spiritual thing. 728 00:38:08,133 --> 00:38:12,434 It starts a process going, and-- but again, with Francis Bacon or 729 00:38:12,434 --> 00:38:16,300 any great painter, the whole is greater than the sum of the 730 00:38:16,300 --> 00:38:17,300 parts. 731 00:38:17,300 --> 00:38:20,167 What it gives to the viewer, what the dialogue between you 732 00:38:20,167 --> 00:38:23,767 and the painting is an awful lot more than what's there on the 733 00:38:23,767 --> 00:38:24,767 surface. 734 00:38:24,767 --> 00:38:28,434 What are your fears? 735 00:38:28,434 --> 00:38:34,367 Pretty much the regular, you know, fears. 736 00:38:34,367 --> 00:38:35,367 Do you dream? 737 00:38:35,367 --> 00:38:39,100 Do you have-- DAVID LYNCH: I feel like I'm at the 738 00:38:39,100 --> 00:38:40,100 psychiatrist. 739 00:38:40,100 --> 00:38:41,968 No, well, that's good. 740 00:38:41,968 --> 00:38:44,133 Yes, I dream, but I don't go by nighttime dreams. 741 00:38:44,133 --> 00:38:52,667 Nighttime dreams are-- they're-- sometimes some good ones, but 742 00:38:52,667 --> 00:38:54,067 it's daydreams that I love. 743 00:38:54,067 --> 00:38:57,467 And sinking down, sitting comfortably in a chair, where 744 00:38:57,467 --> 00:39:01,467 you might be controlling some of the thoughts and directing 745 00:39:01,467 --> 00:39:11,133 yourself here or there, but at a certain point the dream takes 746 00:39:11,133 --> 00:39:13,801 over, and you enter in a place where things are unraveling 747 00:39:13,801 --> 00:39:15,801 before you without your intervention. 748 00:39:15,801 --> 00:39:17,801 And many things can present themselves that way, and 749 00:39:17,801 --> 00:39:19,801 sometimes ideas that you fall in love with. 750 00:39:19,801 --> 00:39:21,801 You ever been in therapy? 751 00:39:21,801 --> 00:39:22,801 One time. 752 00:39:22,801 --> 00:39:23,801 One time? 753 00:39:23,801 --> 00:39:24,834 Yes. 754 00:39:24,834 --> 00:39:25,834 What happened? 755 00:39:25,834 --> 00:39:27,834 I mean, you just decided that-- DAVID LYNCH: Well, I've told 756 00:39:27,834 --> 00:39:28,834 this story before. 757 00:39:28,834 --> 00:39:30,834 Oh, I haven't heard it. 758 00:39:30,834 --> 00:39:31,834 No, that's OK. 759 00:39:31,834 --> 00:39:38,033 Well, I had-- I went in-- you know, I had a reason, you know, 760 00:39:38,033 --> 00:39:39,033 for going in. 761 00:39:39,033 --> 00:39:40,033 Sure. 762 00:39:40,033 --> 00:39:43,400 And then I asked him straight out, right up 763 00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:46,968 front, ``Could this process that we're going to go through affect 764 00:39:46,968 --> 00:39:47,968 creativity?' 765 00:39:47,968 --> 00:39:50,367 ' And he said, ``David, I have to be honest with you, it 766 00:39:50,367 --> 00:39:53,734 could.'' And so then I had to shake his hand and-- CHARLIE 767 00:39:53,734 --> 00:39:56,667 And say, ``Goodbye, this is not for me.'' DAVID LYNCH: 768 00:39:56,667 --> 00:40:00,634 Yes, yes, because it's a magical thing, and you don't want to 769 00:40:00,634 --> 00:40:06,901 know so much that would, you know, stop it from happening. 770 00:40:06,901 --> 00:40:08,968 Do you understand creativity? 771 00:40:08,968 --> 00:40:09,968 No. 772 00:40:09,968 --> 00:40:15,200 I understand the pleasure, joy of it, and I understand that 773 00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:23,701 it's a beautiful process to go-- it's like any invention or 774 00:40:23,701 --> 00:40:29,200 anything starts with an idea, and the idea then gets 775 00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:31,501 manifested in the material world. 776 00:40:31,501 --> 00:40:34,801 It's a beautiful process. 777 00:40:34,801 --> 00:40:38,467 And many, many internal rewards in the doing. 778 00:40:38,467 --> 00:40:43,000 If David Lynch went back and looked at his own 779 00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:47,133 beginning, at wanting to be a painter and all that is part of 780 00:40:47,133 --> 00:40:50,601 your history, what would it tell us about David Lynch the 781 00:40:50,601 --> 00:40:51,601 filmmaker? 782 00:40:51,601 --> 00:40:53,601 If I want to go back? 783 00:40:53,601 --> 00:40:55,601 If you went back and looked at your childhood and 784 00:40:55,601 --> 00:40:57,667 the shaping influences on you, would it be instructive about 785 00:40:57,667 --> 00:41:00,601 the-- you and the film-- you as a filmmaker? 786 00:41:00,601 --> 00:41:02,868 I had a-- I had a-- No. 787 00:41:02,868 --> 00:41:06,267 I think, you know, it doesn't matter where you are growing up. 788 00:41:06,267 --> 00:41:17,467 It has something to do with just sensing your environment and 789 00:41:17,467 --> 00:41:19,467 having the-- things triggered by the environment and your 790 00:41:19,467 --> 00:41:20,467 sensing. 791 00:41:20,467 --> 00:41:26,200 It could be anywhere, because the same things happen 792 00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:27,767 everywhere. 793 00:41:27,767 --> 00:41:32,200 As long as there's human beings and houses and trees, it will 794 00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:33,200 happen. 795 00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:37,434 I'm thrilled to have you here, I really am, 796 00:41:37,434 --> 00:41:38,434 David. 797 00:41:38,434 --> 00:41:40,434 Charlie, thanks a million. 798 00:41:40,434 --> 00:41:42,434 This is a fascinating conversation for me. 799 00:41:42,434 --> 00:41:44,434 Thanks a lot, Charlie. 800 00:41:44,434 --> 00:41:46,434 Lost Highway is a-- I don't want to say David 801 00:41:46,434 --> 00:41:49,067 Lynch is back, but he is, you know. 802 00:41:49,067 --> 00:41:53,901 I mean, you caught an idea, and you've made a film, and I 803 00:41:53,901 --> 00:41:55,901 suspect you feel very good about that. 804 00:41:55,901 --> 00:41:57,901 I do, Charlie, thanks a million for saying 805 00:41:57,901 --> 00:41:58,901 these kind words. 806 00:41:58,901 --> 00:41:59,901 Thanks. 807 00:41:59,901 --> 00:42:00,901 OK. 808 00:42:00,901 --> 00:42:02,901 Thank you very much. 809 00:42:02,901 --> 00:42:04,400 See you. 810 00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:08,300 We'll be right back, and we'll talk about Tibet 811 00:42:08,300 --> 00:42:08,734 with Bob Thurman. 812 00:42:08,734 --> 00:42:08,767 Stay with us.