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An hour with Steve Martin, next.

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Steve Martin joins me this evening.

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For more than 30 years, he has done every kind of performance

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you can imagine.

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In the 1970s, he was the first rock star comedian.

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It's kind of fun for me to see the people in the

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audience with the amateur model arrow through the head.

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This, of course, is the professional model.

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Oh, no, I'm getting happy feet! Whoa!

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I am an experienced professional.

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Don't you try this at home.

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And one more thing -- if you buy my album and you came down here

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expecting me to do a lot of routines from the record and I

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didn't do them -- well, excuse me!

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Through the 1980s and 1990s, his

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career shifted to

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appearances on television shows and in film.

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That was really something tonight.

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It was no difficult to see many swinging Americans enjoying each

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other a great deal.

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And here is a thing I will tell you -- the two most swinging

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foxes had the hots on for us and are coming here tonight to let

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us hold on to their big American breasts!

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Why not?

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There's nothing preventing them.

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After all, there's no other Parof (ph) Czech brothers who

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cruise and swing so successfully in tight slacks.

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We are two wild and crazy guys!

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I'd like to talk seriously just for a moment.

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One of the great art exhibits ever to tour the United States

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is the treasures of Tutankhamon, or King Tut.

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But I think it's a national disgrace the way we have

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commercialized it with trinkets and toys, t-shirts and posters.

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And about three months ago, I was up in the woods and I wrote

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a song.

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I tried to use the ancient modalities and melodies.

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I'd like to do it for you right now.

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Maybe we can all learn something from this.

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(singing): Now when he was a young man, he never thought he'd

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see people stand in line to see the boy king.

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King Tut, how'd you get so funky?

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Did you do the funky?

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Why did you kiss my ear?

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Why are you holding my hand?

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Where's your other hand?

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Between two pillows.

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Those aren't pillows!

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I remember how her little hand used to fit inside mine, how she

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used to love to sit on my lap and lean her

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head against my chest.

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She said I was her hero.

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Then the day comes when she wants to get her ears pierced

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and wants you to drop her off a block before the movie theater.

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The next thing you know, she's wearing eye

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shadow and high heels.

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From that moment on, you're in a constant state of panic.

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You worry about her going out with the wrong kind of guys, the

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kind of guys who only want one thing, and you know exactly what

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that one thing is because it's the same thing you wanted when

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you were their age.

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Let me start with the obvious.

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Excuse me, is that your nose or did a bus park on your face?

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Meteorological -- everybody take cover, she's

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going to blow! Fashionable.

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You know, you could de-emphasize your nose if you wore something

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larger, like Wyoming.

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(singing): When I was younger, just barely a kid, my momma

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noticed funny things I did.

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Like shooting puppies with a bb gun.

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I poisoned guppies when I was done.

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I'd find a pussy cat, bash its head.

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That's when my momma said -- what did she say?

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She said, my boy, I think some day you'll find a way to make

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your tendencies pay.

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You'll be a dentist!

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You have a talent for causing pain.

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Look, I know you can't be seen chatting up customers, so why

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don't you just meet me Friday for dinner at L'Arrande (ph),

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that little place in Beverly Hills, at 8:00.

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You don't even have to give me your phone number.

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You can just show up.

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And if you don't, I'll just eat alone.

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What was the name of the restaurant?

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L'Arrande.

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What time?

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8:00.

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I would like to buy the hamburger.

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I would like to buy the hamburger.

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Hamburger.

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I would like to buy a hamburger.

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Maybe w should stop.

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We don't quit!

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We do not quit!

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Again, again!

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I would like to buy a hamburger.

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I would like to buy a hamburger!

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I would like to buy a hamburger.

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I would like to buy the burger.

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I would like to buy a hamburger.

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I would like to buy a hamburger.

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I would like to buy a hamburger.

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I would like to buy a hamburger.

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Steve Martin has just written a new book, "Born

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Standing Up: A Comic's Life." It is a memoir of how he got into

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show business and his career as a stand-up comedian.

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He has recently stepped back onto several stages.

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First, he was a Kennedy Center honoree.

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On that night, he was celebrated by his friends and peers.

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And secondly, at the 92nd Street Y here in New York.

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Fans came out to see a candid conversation and meet one of

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their favorite artists.

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Here are some of the highlights.

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I was in Georgia in a club -- no,

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in a college --

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and I was -- sorry, yes -- Vanderbilt University.

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And I was playing --

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Tennessee.

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Nashville, Tennessee.

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It is?

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Yes.

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They moved it?

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I did my show, and I finished.

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I said, OK, thank you, and good night.

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And all my props are over there and my banjo case.

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And so I start packing this up, but it's all

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in front of everybody.

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And they're still sitting there like this.

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And I'm packing and putting this away.

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And I said, thank you, and the show's over, so

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thank you very much.

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Thank you.

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And then I'd stand there.

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And they just sat there.

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So I thought, hmmm, and so I just started

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talking to the audience.

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I don't remember what I said, but I just started talking, you

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know, "well, I guess the show is over." Something like that.

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And I walked out into the audience, "and I'm leaving now."

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I said, "I'm going to leave." And they just sort of hung with

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me, and we went out into the hallway, and they kind of hung

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with me, and I said, "yes, we're going to" -- we went outside,

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and there was a drained swimming pool there.

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And so I asked them to get into the swimming pool.

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And they all got into the swimming pool.

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And then I said, "and now I'm going to swim across you." And

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so I did that.

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And they did this.

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This would have been about 1971.

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Yes.

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And I went home that night, and I thought,

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something just happened that was different than anything I had

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been doing.

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And I started to think in that vein, that things could go a

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little, as we say, wilder and crazier.

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I was 21 years old.

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I was -- you know, studying theater, and I fell in love with

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a girl, who made me read Somerset Maugham's "The Razor's

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Edge." And "The Razor's Edge" is about a man questing truth, in

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the sort of '60s sense -- I mean, the book was written

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before that -- but the guru on the mountain and knowing.

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And this just completely appealed to me.

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So I changed my major and I studied philosophy.

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And I -- I -- and it taught me that, oh, these guys are

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questioning everything.

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So I turned it on my act, you know.

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Instead of, does God exist?

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It was, hey, how can I get some better laughs

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here with this act?

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In logic class, I opened my textbook.

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The last place I was expecting to find comic inspiration, and

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was startled to find that Lewis Carroll, the supremely witty

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author of "Alice's Adventures in

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Wonderland," was also a logician.

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He wrote logic textbooks and included argument forms based on

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a syllogism, normally presented in logic books this way: 'All

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men are mortal; Socrates is a man; therefore, Socrates is

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mortal.' But Carroll's were more convoluted, and they struck me

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funny in a new way.

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One: Babies are illogical.

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Two: Nobody's despised who can manage a crocodile.

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Three: Illogical persons are despised.

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Therefore, babies cannot manage crocodiles."

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You have had this evolution

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from early to stand-up

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to movies, and you've been successful at

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all of these things.

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I mean, where have you failed?

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Ask my wife.

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You like being considered a man of letters.

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You say I like it?

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Yes.

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Yes.

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You like it.

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I mean, you like the fact that you're applauded for doing these

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things that are not easy.

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Yes, because -- yes.

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Because it could be also silly.

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You know, when a -- I'm using the word celebrity, I hope you

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don't find it insulting.

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It's just a fact, I guess.

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And -- but recently, I've found, yes, getting a little more --

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get respect as a writer, so I feel good about that.

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The best compliment I ever got is I wrote this story about my

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father in the "New Yorker," and I got a letter from a woman, and

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she said, "you know, I read the article, and I

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gave it to my husband.

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And he read it.

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And then he said" -- sorry.

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I hate that I'm on television.

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He said, 'what's our son's phone number?

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Wow.

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Steve Martin also sat with me at this table to

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talk about his book and his life, and

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here is that conversation.

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"Born Standing Up" is a part of your life

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that's closed, and you say it's as much a biography as it is

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anything else because you're writing about --

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Someone I used to know.

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Somebody you used to know.

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The book starts really at birth.

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I mean, it doesn't deal with just with the 18 years of my

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doing stand-up.

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It starts when I was a child and goes through really through the

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decades, through the death of my parents.

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But it focuses on stand-up.

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We learn a lot about your parents, though.

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Was it hard to write?

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They're both deceased.

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They're both deceased.

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It was hard, one, emotionally to write about one's parents.

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It can be very affecting at times.

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I had written about my father before, so it wasn't new to me.

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But you -- I guess the question is would I have written the same

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thing if they were alive?

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And --

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Someone asked you that.

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I read your response.

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Yes, and I probably would have negotiated a

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little bit, but I think it would be basically the same.

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Because the story has a happy ending, so.

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In fact, you describe your relationship with

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your father as almost like a bell curve.

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Yes, exactly.

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Meaning --?

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That when you are born, you

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are infinitely close.

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And then as I got older, we grew apart.

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And then at the end of his life, we grew back together again to

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be infinitely close.

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Tell me about growing up.

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Well, I was born in Texas, in Waco, Texas, and I

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lived there until I was 4.

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And we left for California when I was about 5, and we moved to

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Englewood -- Hollywood, actually.

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My father was interested in acting, and my mother hated the

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heat in Texas.

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And she was very excited to move to California, where there were

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00:13:31.534 --> 00:13:34.033
movie stars and a different life for her, I think.

259
00:13:34.033 --> 00:13:37.067
Your dad ended up in real estate.

260
00:13:37.067 --> 00:13:40.200
He ended up selling

261
00:13:40.200 --> 00:13:43.534
real estate. Yes.

262
00:13:43.534 --> 00:13:46.267
The opportunities then -- it's funny that I didn't really

263
00:13:46.267 --> 00:13:49.067
realize he wanted to be an actor until much later in my life,

264
00:13:49.067 --> 00:13:51.934
because the only time I ever saw him act -- well,

265
00:13:51.934 --> 00:13:55.167
there was two times.

266
00:13:55.167 --> 00:13:58.434
One I was about 5, I guess, and I went to a play.

267
00:13:58.434 --> 00:14:01.133
I had no idea what a play was, and we waited.

268
00:14:01.133 --> 00:14:04.100
My mother and I sat there, and then my -- my -- the second act

269
00:14:04.100 --> 00:14:06.567
or something, my father brought out a teacup and served somebody

270
00:14:06.567 --> 00:14:08.667
and walked off.

271
00:14:08.667 --> 00:14:11.234
But then the -- I didn't put this in the book, and I -- I'm

272
00:14:11.234 --> 00:14:14.033
sorry I didn't.

273
00:14:14.033 --> 00:14:16.901
I actually forgot about it.

274
00:14:16.901 --> 00:14:20.334
When he was -- for the church, our Baptist church, our local

275
00:14:20.334 --> 00:14:23.601
Garden Grove Baptist Church -- remember, this would have been

276
00:14:23.601 --> 00:14:26.801
about 1955 -- he wanted to put on a show.

277
00:14:26.801 --> 00:14:29.601
I think probably for the same reason I did when I was in high

278
00:14:29.601 --> 00:14:32.934
school, that I organized a vaudeville show so I could do my

279
00:14:32.934 --> 00:14:36.267
act, but I had to put on a whole show in order for me to have

280
00:14:36.267 --> 00:14:39.534
five minutes.

281
00:14:39.534 --> 00:14:42.434
My father organized a minstrel show, which you could actually

282
00:14:42.434 --> 00:14:45.534
buy from Samuel French, and it had all the -- which now would

283
00:14:45.534 --> 00:14:49.767
be considered highly racist, although it was really

284
00:14:49.767 --> 00:14:53.901
affectionate at the time.

285
00:14:53.901 --> 00:14:57.334
And I was employed.

286
00:14:57.334 --> 00:15:00.501
I was probably 8, and I wore blackface with white lips and

287
00:15:00.501 --> 00:15:03.133
sat on the side of the stage eating a watermelon.

288
00:15:03.133 --> 00:15:05.601
That was it?

289
00:15:05.601 --> 00:15:08.701
That was my role.

290
00:15:08.701 --> 00:15:11.300
It's so embarrassing.

291
00:15:11.300 --> 00:15:13.868
I'm so glad there are no photos.

292
00:15:13.868 --> 00:15:16.033
You think he -- he never got over never becoming

293
00:15:16.033 --> 00:15:18.734
an actor?

294
00:15:18.734 --> 00:15:21.434
Well, it's hard to say, because we never talked

295
00:15:21.434 --> 00:15:24.133
about it.

296
00:15:24.133 --> 00:15:26.868
Well, toward the end of the book -- I won't

297
00:15:26.868 --> 00:15:29.567
go into that, because

298
00:15:29.567 --> 00:15:33.601
it's quite emotional, but I -- I can only think, who wouldn't

299
00:15:33.601 --> 00:15:37.734
rather be in show business?

300
00:15:37.734 --> 00:15:41.734
You know, than -- selling real estate is fine -- as -- but I

301
00:15:41.734 --> 00:15:44.968
think his heart would have certainly preferred that.

302
00:15:44.968 --> 00:15:47.901
But I always thought that he must have felt the pressure to

303
00:15:47.901 --> 00:15:50.367
put food on the table, and an actor -- unless you're, you know

304
00:15:50.367 --> 00:15:52.434
-- it's hard.

305
00:15:52.434 --> 00:15:54.300
A pressure you didn't have.

306
00:15:54.300 --> 00:15:56.100
No.

307
00:15:56.100 --> 00:15:58.200
What, as a --

308
00:15:58.200 --> 00:16:00.501
To put food on the table, so to speak.

309
00:16:00.501 --> 00:16:03.200
I mean, in other words, you didn't have the same kind of

310
00:16:03.200 --> 00:16:06.033
economic demands that he might have had with a wife and child.

311
00:16:06.033 --> 00:16:08.701
In fact, I wonder if that's why I wasn't married

312
00:16:08.701 --> 00:16:11.334
until I was 38 or something, because I knew it would put

313
00:16:11.334 --> 00:16:13.567
stress on my hopes and dreams.

314
00:16:13.567 --> 00:16:15.601
You wanted show business early.

315
00:16:15.601 --> 00:16:17.367
I did.

316
00:16:17.367 --> 00:16:19.200
Yes, show business.

317
00:16:19.200 --> 00:16:22.868
That's what I'd call it.

318
00:16:22.868 --> 00:16:24.667
I'm taking it out of this, yes.

319
00:16:24.667 --> 00:16:26.601
Yes, I really wanted to be up

320
00:16:26.601 --> 00:16:28.667
in front of people.

321
00:16:28.667 --> 00:16:31.100
And I was so inspired by comedians I saw on television --

322
00:16:31.100 --> 00:16:33.834
Red Skelton and Jerry Lewis and --

323
00:16:33.834 --> 00:16:37.067
Jack Benny.

324
00:16:37.067 --> 00:16:40.234
Jack Benny I loved.

325
00:16:40.234 --> 00:16:43.100
And I just loved trying to do what they did.

326
00:16:43.100 --> 00:16:45.501
What's amazing about the book, it is that --

327
00:16:45.501 --> 00:16:47.567
Jerry Seinfeld on this show -- I don't know if you know this --

328
00:16:47.567 --> 00:16:49.601
said it may be the best book ever written.

329
00:16:49.601 --> 00:16:51.968
Here it is right now.

330
00:16:51.968 --> 00:16:53.968
Take a look at this.

331
00:16:53.968 --> 00:16:56.267
Jerry Seinfeld.

332
00:16:56.267 --> 00:16:58.767
All good comedy,

333
00:16:58.767 --> 00:17:01.167
I think, is intellectual.

334
00:17:01.167 --> 00:17:03.200
You know, even somebody like Steve Martin, who's written this

335
00:17:03.200 --> 00:17:05.267
fantastic -- I think the best book ever written about comedy

336
00:17:05.267 --> 00:17:07.467
that's coming out I think in a couple of months, called "A

337
00:17:07.467 --> 00:17:09.767
Comic's Life."

338
00:17:09.767 --> 00:17:12.033
Which is his memoir, is it?

339
00:17:12.033 --> 00:17:14.267
It's his memoir of his life as a comedian.

340
00:17:14.267 --> 00:17:17.067
Now, there's a guy I think a lot of people would think, well, he

341
00:17:17.067 --> 00:17:19.400
was just silly, you know, he was silly.

342
00:17:19.400 --> 00:17:21.968
No, he was incredibly intellectual.

343
00:17:21.968 --> 00:17:25.167
And when you put intellectualism with an arrow through the head,

344
00:17:25.167 --> 00:17:28.067
that makes you laugh.

345
00:17:28.067 --> 00:17:30.734
Just an arrow through the head does not make you laugh.

346
00:17:30.734 --> 00:17:33.000
So it's the head behind the joke that makes the audience laugh.

347
00:17:33.000 --> 00:17:35.200
That was very nice.

348
00:17:35.200 --> 00:17:37.334
But he's right, too, isn't he?

349
00:17:37.334 --> 00:17:39.434
Well, I guess.

350
00:17:39.434 --> 00:17:41.534
About the arrow between your ears.

351
00:17:41.534 --> 00:17:43.634
Well, I think that was part of my approach,

352
00:17:43.634 --> 00:17:45.767
too, is that it was multi-layered -- I hate to be

353
00:17:45.767 --> 00:17:48.467
pretentious about it -- but my little mind at the time felt

354
00:17:48.467 --> 00:17:51.300
that funny and -- smart and stupid at the same time.

355
00:17:51.300 --> 00:17:53.667
It seems in reading this that your job --

356
00:17:53.667 --> 00:17:55.968
And I'd like to say about Jerry Seinfeld that he

357
00:17:55.968 --> 00:17:59.901
is the best reader of this book that we've ever had.

358
00:17:59.901 --> 00:18:03.167
Well, no, I resent that!

359
00:18:03.167 --> 00:18:04.567
All right, Disneyland was a great place for

360
00:18:04.567 --> 00:18:06.133
you to work.

361
00:18:06.133 --> 00:18:08.367
Yes.

362
00:18:08.367 --> 00:18:10.467
I was 10 years old.

363
00:18:10.467 --> 00:18:12.767
We had just moved to Garden Grove, California.

364
00:18:12.767 --> 00:18:15.067
And I didn't really know much about Disneyland.

365
00:18:15.067 --> 00:18:17.834
It was just opening.

366
00:18:17.834 --> 00:18:20.467
It was 1955, the summer of 1955.

367
00:18:20.467 --> 00:18:23.133
And a friend of mine -- his name is Mo Collins (ph), I found out

368
00:18:23.133 --> 00:18:25.968
since -- told me, they're hiring kids.

369
00:18:25.968 --> 00:18:28.400
And I said, what, what?

370
00:18:28.400 --> 00:18:31.133
He said, they're hiring kids to sell guidebooks.

371
00:18:31.133 --> 00:18:33.801
And I got on my bike and I went down there and somehow just

372
00:18:33.801 --> 00:18:36.734
landed this job.

373
00:18:36.734 --> 00:18:39.667
And it was --- you walk up to Disneyland, you're 10 years old

374
00:18:39.667 --> 00:18:42.667
and you park your bike and you look up, and there is a train

375
00:18:42.667 --> 00:18:45.334
coming in and there's Mickey Mouse and there's trams and

376
00:18:45.334 --> 00:18:47.601
rockets to the moon -- a rocket to the moon.

377
00:18:47.601 --> 00:18:49.801
And I was hired, and that was really the beginning of my show

378
00:18:49.801 --> 00:18:52.534
business career, I always felt.

379
00:18:52.534 --> 00:18:55.367
In what way?

380
00:18:55.367 --> 00:18:58.634
Well, I was out in front of people.

381
00:18:58.634 --> 00:19:02.567
And even now they refer to people who work there as actors,

382
00:19:02.567 --> 00:19:06.834
and you're backstage when you're not out in front of people.

383
00:19:06.834 --> 00:19:10.901
And you know, I was at first -- it was the first time I could be

384
00:19:10.901 --> 00:19:14.934
vocal, really, in front of people, and I sort of migrated

385
00:19:14.934 --> 00:19:18.467
through Disneyland, first selling trick ropes at the

386
00:19:18.467 --> 00:19:22.033
frontier land, doing actual cowboy tricks with the rope, and

387
00:19:22.033 --> 00:19:25.100
I got a job at Merlin's Magic Shop, and that was my big break.

388
00:19:25.100 --> 00:19:28.834
But what's interesting about it, those are

389
00:19:28.834 --> 00:19:32.133
two of the aspects of what later became your act, magic and --

390
00:19:32.133 --> 00:19:34.868
Yes.

391
00:19:34.868 --> 00:19:37.400
I didn't do trick roping in my act, but I did -- everything I

392
00:19:37.400 --> 00:19:42.267
learned there, I used. Juggling.

393
00:19:42.267 --> 00:19:44.367
Well, I didn't learn banjo playing there.

394
00:19:44.367 --> 00:19:46.167
Here's what's funny about it -- you say you

395
00:19:46.167 --> 00:19:48.033
had to resort to those kinds of things because you did not

396
00:19:48.033 --> 00:19:49.634
have --

397
00:19:49.634 --> 00:19:51.601
Talent.

398
00:19:51.601 --> 00:19:53.400
-- natural talent.

399
00:19:53.400 --> 00:19:55.234
Well, it's true.

400
00:19:55.234 --> 00:19:57.100
You know, I knew people in high school who could sing so

401
00:19:57.100 --> 00:19:58.767
beautifully, and people could dance.

402
00:19:58.767 --> 00:20:00.534
I couldn't do --

403
00:20:00.534 --> 00:20:02.067
You couldn't do either.

404
00:20:02.067 --> 00:20:03.767
-- any of that.

405
00:20:03.767 --> 00:20:05.534
Or play an instrument even in high school.

406
00:20:05.534 --> 00:20:07.400
I couldn't play an instrument.

407
00:20:07.400 --> 00:20:09.434
And I really had no gift in that direction.

408
00:20:09.434 --> 00:20:11.234
My mother played piano well and my father sang, but

409
00:20:11.234 --> 00:20:14.267
I inherited neither.

410
00:20:14.267 --> 00:20:17.300
I guess I sang like my mother and played piano like my father.

411
00:20:17.300 --> 00:20:20.601
Not so good.

412
00:20:20.601 --> 00:20:23.701
But in the world of vaudeville and doing stuff,

413
00:20:23.701 --> 00:20:26.901
of doing tricks -- you know, you could just go buy a trick and

414
00:20:26.901 --> 00:20:29.901
you rehearse it, and put two or three of them together, and you

415
00:20:29.901 --> 00:20:32.634
are in show business to anybody who will watch.

416
00:20:32.634 --> 00:20:35.133
And I also watched a comedian, too, in Disneyland, named Wally

417
00:20:35.133 --> 00:20:38.000
Boge (ph), who worked at the Golden Horseshoe Revue.

418
00:20:38.000 --> 00:20:41.400
And he was fantastically funny.

419
00:20:41.400 --> 00:20:45.033
He's still around, he's a great guy.

420
00:20:45.033 --> 00:20:49.634
But you began to learn what about performing?

421
00:20:49.634 --> 00:20:53.901
Well, I think from Wally Boge, I learned a

422
00:20:53.901 --> 00:20:57.601
secret lesson that I -- I am just remembering that I learned

423
00:20:57.601 --> 00:21:00.901
from him, which was "be likable." He was so likable.

424
00:21:00.901 --> 00:21:03.868
And I thought, how is he doing that?

425
00:21:03.868 --> 00:21:06.701
I guess you could be likable.

426
00:21:06.701 --> 00:21:09.067
But I didn't know how to do that.

427
00:21:09.067 --> 00:21:11.367
So I kind of imitated him.

428
00:21:11.367 --> 00:21:13.567
And you don't know how you became likable, you

429
00:21:13.567 --> 00:21:15.834
just knew --

430
00:21:15.834 --> 00:21:17.801
I don't even know that I am.

431
00:21:17.801 --> 00:21:20.167
I'm just saying that's what I attempted to do.

432
00:21:20.167 --> 00:21:22.167
There was a kind of friendliness about him and there was a very

433
00:21:22.167 --> 00:21:23.934
devil may care.

434
00:21:23.934 --> 00:21:25.767
Don't you think your character

435
00:21:25.767 --> 00:21:27.400
on stage had that?

436
00:21:27.400 --> 00:21:29.400
I don't know.

437
00:21:29.400 --> 00:21:31.167
I always thought that he was likable

438
00:21:31.167 --> 00:21:32.767
because he was so unlikable.

439
00:21:32.767 --> 00:21:34.434
But I hesitate to talk about my character in the third person,

440
00:21:34.434 --> 00:21:36.601
because it sounds weird.

441
00:21:36.601 --> 00:21:38.968
But --

442
00:21:38.968 --> 00:21:41.734
Well, was it that way?

443
00:21:41.734 --> 00:21:44.701
That character on stage was a very selfish,

444
00:21:44.701 --> 00:21:47.334
egocentric person, who is angry all the time.

445
00:21:47.334 --> 00:21:50.300
How did -- how did you learn the banjo?

446
00:21:50.300 --> 00:21:52.767
I got interested because I heard recordings of

447
00:21:52.767 --> 00:21:55.100
Earl Scruggs playing the banjo.

448
00:21:55.100 --> 00:21:57.133
I had a friend in high school named John McEuen, who played

449
00:21:57.133 --> 00:21:58.901
the banjo.

450
00:21:58.901 --> 00:22:01.534
He is now in the Nitty-Gritty Dirt Band, plays a lot on his

451
00:22:01.534 --> 00:22:04.167
own now too.

452
00:22:04.167 --> 00:22:06.634
He's a great banjo player.

453
00:22:06.634 --> 00:22:09.100
But mainly I slowed records down, which I found out was the

454
00:22:09.100 --> 00:22:11.434
standard way that most people learned the banjo in those days.

455
00:22:11.434 --> 00:22:13.767
There were only two ways -- you take a lesson, and I didn't even

456
00:22:13.767 --> 00:22:16.734
know what a lesson was or how to get one.

457
00:22:16.734 --> 00:22:18.834
There was a book that Pete Seeger did called "How to Play

458
00:22:18.834 --> 00:22:20.968
the Five-String Banjo," which we all got.

459
00:22:20.968 --> 00:22:23.100
And the other method was to take 33 rpm records and slow them

460
00:22:23.100 --> 00:22:25.200
down to 16, down to the banjo so you're in tune

461
00:22:25.200 --> 00:22:27.334
with it, and pick

462
00:22:27.334 --> 00:22:30.067
it out note by note, literally.

463
00:22:30.067 --> 00:22:32.367
Ding-dong-dong --.

464
00:22:32.367 --> 00:22:35.267
Why the banjo?

465
00:22:35.267 --> 00:22:38.400
I just fell in love with it.

466
00:22:38.400 --> 00:22:41.267
I don't know why.

467
00:22:41.267 --> 00:22:44.434
It just struck me somehow.

468
00:22:44.434 --> 00:22:47.334
And the banjo is actually -- I don't even know what the public

469
00:22:47.334 --> 00:22:50.300
-- there are two kinds of banjos -- a quick little history.

470
00:22:50.300 --> 00:22:52.767
There's the four-string, which is that sort of Dixieland, and

471
00:22:52.767 --> 00:22:55.367
then there's the five-string, which is more bluegrass,

472
00:22:55.367 --> 00:22:57.868
hard-driving, but also it's a very melancholy instrument,

473
00:22:57.868 --> 00:23:00.000
believe it or not.

474
00:23:00.000 --> 00:23:02.100
You can play hard and fast, or you can play soft and quiet.

475
00:23:02.100 --> 00:23:03.901
It has many, many tones of music.

476
00:23:03.901 --> 00:23:06.367
I love it.

477
00:23:06.367 --> 00:23:08.868
What was it that you won the Grammy for, you and

478
00:23:08.868 --> 00:23:11.968
Earl together?

479
00:23:11.968 --> 00:23:14.767
Well, I -- that's what I call one of those right

480
00:23:14.767 --> 00:23:17.667
places at the right time, you know.

481
00:23:17.667 --> 00:23:20.367
Earl Scruggs asked me to play on his 75th anniversary album to

482
00:23:20.367 --> 00:23:23.701
accompany him with many players.

483
00:23:23.701 --> 00:23:27.067
I would play five-string banjo along with him.

484
00:23:27.067 --> 00:23:30.267
And it won a Grammy.

485
00:23:30.267 --> 00:23:32.901
And I have a Grammy that says, "Steve Martin, best country

486
00:23:32.901 --> 00:23:34.834
instrumentalist." Which is just hilarious, because I know so

487
00:23:34.834 --> 00:23:36.734
many people who are maybe a thousand times better than I am

488
00:23:36.734 --> 00:23:38.634
that don't have these.

489
00:23:38.634 --> 00:23:40.567
But you must take great pride,

490
00:23:40.567 --> 00:23:42.467
if you didn't feel

491
00:23:42.467 --> 00:23:44.501
like you had any talent, to learn to

492
00:23:44.501 --> 00:23:46.601
play a musical instrument.

493
00:23:46.601 --> 00:23:49.234
Yes.

494
00:23:49.234 --> 00:23:52.033
Well, I knew at the time -- I remember first getting the banjo

495
00:23:52.033 --> 00:23:54.267
and reading the book, and saying here is how you make a C chord,

496
00:23:54.267 --> 00:23:56.901
and I'd put my fingers down to play the C chord, and I couldn't

497
00:23:56.901 --> 00:23:59.734
tell the difference between the G chord and the C chord.

498
00:23:59.734 --> 00:24:02.334
But I just stayed with it.

499
00:24:02.334 --> 00:24:04.801
And I kept saying to myself, well, if I just stay with it,

500
00:24:04.801 --> 00:24:06.901
one day I will have played for 40 years.

501
00:24:06.901 --> 00:24:08.968
So the goal is to just keep playing.

502
00:24:08.968 --> 00:24:12.634
The goal is just to keep playing.

503
00:24:12.634 --> 00:24:14.300
One day you'll be playing 40 years and you'll be

504
00:24:14.300 --> 00:24:16.033
able to play somehow.

505
00:24:16.033 --> 00:24:17.801
Because anybody who sticks with something for 40 years will be

506
00:24:17.801 --> 00:24:19.400
able to play it.

507
00:24:19.400 --> 00:24:20.834
Why did you put it in your act?

508
00:24:20.834 --> 00:24:22.634
Oh, just to fill time.

509
00:24:22.634 --> 00:24:24.400
No.

510
00:24:24.400 --> 00:24:26.934
Seriously.

511
00:24:26.934 --> 00:24:29.100
When I first went on stage, I -- all I needed was material.

512
00:24:29.100 --> 00:24:31.234
I had to do 10 minutes.

513
00:24:31.234 --> 00:24:33.067
I had a little magic act, I had my banjo, I had poetry that I

514
00:24:33.067 --> 00:24:34.701
learned in college --

515
00:24:34.701 --> 00:24:36.167
E.E.

516
00:24:36.167 --> 00:24:37.534
Cummings specifically.

517
00:24:37.534 --> 00:24:38.834
E.E.

518
00:24:38.834 --> 00:24:40.501
Cummings and T.S.

519
00:24:40.501 --> 00:24:42.267
Elliot and all kinds of people.

520
00:24:42.267 --> 00:24:44.100
All to fill time?

521
00:24:44.100 --> 00:24:46.567
To fill up enough time to actually be on stage.

522
00:24:46.567 --> 00:24:49.667
And then I had a few jokes, you know, too.

523
00:24:49.667 --> 00:24:52.868
Where do you learn timing?

524
00:24:52.868 --> 00:24:56.133
Well, I think if you're in front of an audience,

525
00:24:56.133 --> 00:24:58.868
you learn it so quickly.

526
00:24:58.868 --> 00:25:01.234
Because you don't want to, one, step on your laughs, and you

527
00:25:01.234 --> 00:25:03.734
don't want to, like, wait too long for the next one.

528
00:25:03.734 --> 00:25:05.868
They lose interest.

529
00:25:05.868 --> 00:25:08.133
It's just a matter of instinct.

530
00:25:08.133 --> 00:25:10.300
But basically, I think I learned timing from

531
00:25:10.300 --> 00:25:12.634
watching other comedians.

532
00:25:12.634 --> 00:25:15.400
Well, you also did this -- I mean, you began to

533
00:25:15.400 --> 00:25:18.133
examine your performances.

534
00:25:18.133 --> 00:25:20.834
You really were almost like somebody who takes a notebook

535
00:25:20.834 --> 00:25:23.367
and knew exactly what laughs -- what got laughs, what didn't,

536
00:25:23.367 --> 00:25:25.501
and began to understand the nature of the audience.

537
00:25:25.501 --> 00:25:27.801
Well, first of all, it's vital that you

538
00:25:27.801 --> 00:25:29.767
remember what got a laugh and what didn't.

539
00:25:29.767 --> 00:25:31.834
So that's not such a miracle.

540
00:25:31.834 --> 00:25:34.534
But you did it with a more studious aspect.

541
00:25:34.534 --> 00:25:36.901
And --

542
00:25:36.901 --> 00:25:39.534
I think in the book, it comes off that way,

543
00:25:39.534 --> 00:25:42.033
because I was actually doing what I was told in a book that I

544
00:25:42.033 --> 00:25:44.601
read about being a magician.

545
00:25:44.601 --> 00:25:47.234
So I said, OK, the book said to write down every trick in order,

546
00:25:47.234 --> 00:25:49.767
and then note how it goes.

547
00:25:49.767 --> 00:25:52.200
But when I was doing comedy, I didn't necessarily do that.

548
00:25:52.200 --> 00:25:55.200
I had a sheet of paper and if I went off -- and sometimes I

549
00:25:55.200 --> 00:25:59.434
would be in the bed and I would go, oh, I remember that thing

550
00:25:59.434 --> 00:26:02.868
got a laugh, and write it down.

551
00:26:02.868 --> 00:26:06.701
And that's really how material was developed, was just out

552
00:26:06.701 --> 00:26:09.834
there, and it's very Darwinian because a mistake

553
00:26:09.834 --> 00:26:12.801
can lead to a success.

554
00:26:12.801 --> 00:26:16.267
So if something goes wrong, it's actually an avenue to something

555
00:26:16.267 --> 00:26:19.133
going right later.

556
00:26:19.133 --> 00:26:21.167
Tell me how you developed your sort of

557
00:26:21.167 --> 00:26:23.167
philosophy about what you wanted to do on stage.

558
00:26:23.167 --> 00:26:25.200
Well --

559
00:26:25.200 --> 00:26:27.234
Because there's a lot in here --

560
00:26:27.234 --> 00:26:29.234
it's the most --

561
00:26:29.234 --> 00:26:31.300
I think Jerry Seinfeld is exactly right.

562
00:26:31.300 --> 00:26:33.767
Of all the comedians -- it's more interestingly expressed in

563
00:26:33.767 --> 00:26:36.567
this book than anywhere else I have ever seen.

564
00:26:36.567 --> 00:26:39.801
Well, thank you.

565
00:26:39.801 --> 00:26:43.234
I, first of all, just wanted to make people laugh.

566
00:26:43.234 --> 00:26:46.400
And then as you -- when I started to get older, say like

567
00:26:46.400 --> 00:26:49.968
20, 21, I'm in college at this point, and I'm being introduced

568
00:26:49.968 --> 00:26:54.601
to new artists, new writers, philosophers -- a whole other

569
00:26:54.601 --> 00:26:59.734
level of sophistication, I'll say.

570
00:26:59.734 --> 00:27:04.267
I started to examine my act or comedy.

571
00:27:04.267 --> 00:27:08.167
And at the time, comedy was, with some great exceptions --

572
00:27:08.167 --> 00:27:11.367
like Bob Newhart -- was basically set-up and punchline.

573
00:27:11.367 --> 00:27:14.234
And they were told by people -- there was sort of a cliche of

574
00:27:14.234 --> 00:27:16.901
the nightclub comedian, rat-a-tat, rat-a-tat,

575
00:27:16.901 --> 00:27:19.400
rat-a-tat --

576
00:27:19.400 --> 00:27:21.767
Bob Hope was great at that.

577
00:27:21.767 --> 00:27:24.033
Bob Hope was great.

578
00:27:24.033 --> 00:27:26.000
But he was genuinely funny, too.

579
00:27:26.000 --> 00:27:29.000
But you could also be a comedian and not be funny.

580
00:27:29.000 --> 00:27:31.934
You could just tell the jokes and still get laughs, but not

581
00:27:31.934 --> 00:27:34.934
really be funny.

582
00:27:34.934 --> 00:27:38.067
And I had grown up with some close high school friends, and

583
00:27:38.067 --> 00:27:41.734
we laughed all the time.

584
00:27:41.734 --> 00:27:45.501
The kind of laughter that, you know, I think a lot of people

585
00:27:45.501 --> 00:27:49.067
grow up, when you're young, holding your sides and you're

586
00:27:49.067 --> 00:27:52.400
wishing you could stop laughing because you're almost sick.

587
00:27:52.400 --> 00:27:55.534
And I thought, gee, that's -- where's that kind of laugh?

588
00:27:55.534 --> 00:27:59.934
Where are the comedians who get that kind of laugh, and what

589
00:27:59.934 --> 00:28:03.834
creates that kind of laugh?

590
00:28:03.834 --> 00:28:07.267
I know it's not -- we weren't telling each other jokes.

591
00:28:07.267 --> 00:28:10.434
And I thought, I think what creates that kind

592
00:28:10.434 --> 00:28:13.601
of laugh is inexplicable.

593
00:28:13.601 --> 00:28:16.567
In other words, you had to be there.

594
00:28:16.567 --> 00:28:19.601
If you're laughing, crying, dying on the floor with your

595
00:28:19.601 --> 00:28:22.501
high school friends and then you go and try to tell someone what

596
00:28:22.501 --> 00:28:25.167
happened, and they go, uh-huh.

597
00:28:25.167 --> 00:28:27.701
And you say, you should have been there.

598
00:28:27.701 --> 00:28:30.100
Yeah, you had to be there.

599
00:28:30.100 --> 00:28:32.868
So I thought, what if I could have an act where you had to

600
00:28:32.868 --> 00:28:36.567
say, "you had to be there?"

601
00:28:36.567 --> 00:28:39.934
To appreciate and understand it.

602
00:28:39.934 --> 00:28:42.968
Yes, that it would be so kind of personal, at

603
00:28:42.968 --> 00:28:45.968
that moment, that -- that it's almost

604
00:28:45.968 --> 00:28:48.934
inexplicable to someone else.

605
00:28:48.934 --> 00:28:52.067
And that's what I started to go for.

606
00:28:52.067 --> 00:28:54.934
And so I took out the sort of standard jokes of set-up and the

607
00:28:54.934 --> 00:28:57.901
punchline, and tried to come around it from behind.

608
00:28:57.901 --> 00:29:00.634
Tell me what that means, though, when you try to

609
00:29:00.634 --> 00:29:03.200
come at it in a way that --

610
00:29:03.200 --> 00:29:05.734
Well, I thought -- it was a

611
00:29:05.734 --> 00:29:07.868
combination of thoughts.

612
00:29:07.868 --> 00:29:09.734
It gets a little smartie pants, collegiate thinking.

613
00:29:09.734 --> 00:29:11.634
I thought, what if I never delivered a punchline?

614
00:29:11.634 --> 00:29:13.267
Exactly!

615
00:29:13.267 --> 00:29:15.267
Yes.

616
00:29:15.267 --> 00:29:17.934
Right.

617
00:29:17.934 --> 00:29:20.334
Would it work?

618
00:29:20.334 --> 00:29:23.000
So now they're sitting there waiting for me to

619
00:29:23.000 --> 00:29:25.634
do something that would indicate to them that it

620
00:29:25.634 --> 00:29:28.434
was time to laugh.

621
00:29:28.434 --> 00:29:30.801
Because I had watched comedians, and I'd think, OK, when they do

622
00:29:30.801 --> 00:29:33.667
the punchline, then everybody knows they're supposed to laugh

623
00:29:33.667 --> 00:29:36.467
at that point, and they kind of do like you applaud at the end

624
00:29:36.467 --> 00:29:39.434
of a song.

625
00:29:39.434 --> 00:29:41.901
So I started taking out the punchlines and doing things that

626
00:29:41.901 --> 00:29:44.234
seemed like they were going somewhere and kind of never did.

627
00:29:44.234 --> 00:29:46.400
And pretty soon, eventually, people were

628
00:29:46.400 --> 00:29:48.634
left kind of hanging.

629
00:29:48.634 --> 00:29:51.367
But laughing at the process?

630
00:29:51.367 --> 00:29:53.701
Not quite.

631
00:29:53.701 --> 00:29:55.667
I found that they would laugh when you went on to something

632
00:29:55.667 --> 00:29:57.701
else, and they were kind of stuck there in the last bit,

633
00:29:57.701 --> 00:29:59.734
going, "what was that?

634
00:29:59.734 --> 00:30:02.200
Oh, it's over.

635
00:30:02.200 --> 00:30:04.300
Oh, it's over." And there was a kind of peculiarity.

636
00:30:04.300 --> 00:30:06.467
A kind of delayed laugh.

637
00:30:06.467 --> 00:30:08.400
Not the way -- it's not like -- it could be a

638
00:30:08.400 --> 00:30:10.300
delayed laugh.

639
00:30:10.300 --> 00:30:12.000
It could be a laugh that night, when they're home.

640
00:30:12.000 --> 00:30:14.200
It could be never.

641
00:30:14.200 --> 00:30:16.334
But I just started playing around.

642
00:30:16.334 --> 00:30:19.334
It wasn't one thing, either.

643
00:30:19.334 --> 00:30:23.801
It sounds like there was one idea, but there were a lot of

644
00:30:23.801 --> 00:30:27.834
little different ideas, and there I was.

645
00:30:27.834 --> 00:30:31.801
As you began to create this character and you

646
00:30:31.801 --> 00:30:35.300
began not to have punchlines, you know, was the banjo or magic

647
00:30:35.300 --> 00:30:38.767
punctuation, still filling time?

648
00:30:38.767 --> 00:30:42.100
Or were you becoming more of a comedian than a -- whatever you

649
00:30:42.100 --> 00:30:45.734
might have been doing to fill time?

650
00:30:45.734 --> 00:30:48.734
The magic act enabled me to express that kind

651
00:30:48.734 --> 00:30:52.434
of silliness, but with actual stuff to do.

652
00:30:52.434 --> 00:30:55.767
And the banjo, I just loved having it, one

653
00:30:55.767 --> 00:30:58.901
-- maybe as a prop.

654
00:30:58.901 --> 00:31:01.534
But I worked up some bits with it, too, like sing-alongs that

655
00:31:01.534 --> 00:31:04.133
no one could sing along with.

656
00:31:04.133 --> 00:31:06.734
You're expecting to see a professional show, so

657
00:31:06.734 --> 00:31:09.434
let's not waste any more time.

658
00:31:09.434 --> 00:31:12.267
Here we go, professional show business!

659
00:31:12.267 --> 00:31:15.100
Let's go, hey!

660
00:31:15.100 --> 00:31:17.434
I would do lengthy tuning.

661
00:31:17.434 --> 00:31:19.734
Tuning things, then finally get in tune, and walk into the mike.

662
00:31:19.734 --> 00:31:22.467
Were yo surprised by how the audience

663
00:31:22.467 --> 00:31:25.367
would react?

664
00:31:25.367 --> 00:31:28.601
I mean, would they at some point, once you had fine-tuned

665
00:31:28.601 --> 00:31:31.501
this thing, did they all do what you expected them to do, or did

666
00:31:31.501 --> 00:31:34.934
they differ from night to night to night?

667
00:31:34.934 --> 00:31:38.300
Well, there was a -- yes.

668
00:31:38.300 --> 00:31:41.334
Every show is different.

669
00:31:41.334 --> 00:31:44.100
I always say that when you do six shows a week, there's two

670
00:31:44.100 --> 00:31:46.667
that are great, there is two that are nice, there is two that

671
00:31:46.667 --> 00:31:48.868
are fair, and one that is lousy.

672
00:31:48.868 --> 00:31:51.000
And what's the difference in those that are

673
00:31:51.000 --> 00:31:53.100
really good and those that are really lousy?

674
00:31:53.100 --> 00:31:56.000
The audience?

675
00:31:56.000 --> 00:31:59.200
Well, it could be that.

676
00:31:59.200 --> 00:32:02.968
It's just that the ignition wasn't there.

677
00:32:02.968 --> 00:32:06.801
It could be -- I read an article about Jerry Lewis one time, and

678
00:32:06.801 --> 00:32:10.167
he said, he said, "I was standing backstage in Las Vegas,

679
00:32:10.167 --> 00:32:13.200
about to go on, and I listened to the audience, and I knew I

680
00:32:13.200 --> 00:32:15.968
was dead." And I think all comedians have felt that.

681
00:32:15.968 --> 00:32:18.667
There's just a kind of innervation --

682
00:32:18.667 --> 00:32:21.234
You can feel it.

683
00:32:21.234 --> 00:32:23.634
You can feel it -- oh, it's going to be quiet.

684
00:32:23.634 --> 00:32:26.367
But the hard thing to learn is, because they're not laughing, it

685
00:32:26.367 --> 00:32:29.367
doesn't mean you're not going over.

686
00:32:29.367 --> 00:32:32.400
Come back to this, to read this and to like

687
00:32:32.400 --> 00:32:35.334
it so much, you get the idea that you have been very, very

688
00:32:35.334 --> 00:32:38.434
curious about the craft of putting together an act.

689
00:32:38.434 --> 00:32:41.133
And that you've thought about it and you've read about it, you

690
00:32:41.133 --> 00:32:44.000
know, that book called "Showmanship for Magicians,"

691
00:32:44.000 --> 00:32:46.400
which taught you something about being on stage, entertaining

692
00:32:46.400 --> 00:32:48.801
people, making them laugh.

693
00:32:48.801 --> 00:32:50.868
Well, it might sound that way, but

694
00:32:50.868 --> 00:32:52.934
still I was desperate.

695
00:32:52.934 --> 00:32:54.968
My act never -- it didn't start to cohere until, you know, for

696
00:32:54.968 --> 00:32:57.834
10 years.

697
00:32:57.834 --> 00:33:00.200
So what was that 10 years like?

698
00:33:00.200 --> 00:33:03.133
Well, it's -- you're still doing a show.

699
00:33:03.133 --> 00:33:05.634
It sounds like it was all silence, and then

700
00:33:05.634 --> 00:33:08.934
it was giant laughter.

701
00:33:08.934 --> 00:33:12.534
But, obviously, I had enough happening that I'd get rehired

702
00:33:12.534 --> 00:33:15.701
and keep going.

703
00:33:15.701 --> 00:33:18.567
You know, but -- just -- sometimes those very quiet

704
00:33:18.567 --> 00:33:21.267
night, and that desperation to sort of get them in some way

705
00:33:21.267 --> 00:33:24.501
leads you into an experiment.

706
00:33:24.501 --> 00:33:27.667
What was the breakthrough for you?

707
00:33:27.667 --> 00:33:31.367
I think it was probably when I was touring in

708
00:33:31.367 --> 00:33:34.367
the early '70s, touring colleges, things are starting to

709
00:33:34.367 --> 00:33:40.000
come together, playing every dump and every nice place and

710
00:33:40.000 --> 00:33:44.467
every kind of situation, and you're just so experienced at

711
00:33:44.467 --> 00:33:49.067
this point.

712
00:33:49.067 --> 00:33:53.100
And you go,

713
00:33:53.100 --> 00:33:56.667
The commercial breakthrough for you was where, when?

714
00:33:56.667 --> 00:33:59.567
Well, I would say -- that's a tough one.

715
00:33:59.567 --> 00:34:02.234
I'd say I have to give it, like, three elements.

716
00:34:02.234 --> 00:34:04.734
One would be "The Tonight Show."

717
00:34:04.734 --> 00:34:07.133
Right.

718
00:34:07.133 --> 00:34:09.434
The second would be my first record.

719
00:34:09.434 --> 00:34:11.400
And the third would be "Saturday Night Live."

720
00:34:11.400 --> 00:34:13.367
Let's talk about --

721
00:34:13.367 --> 00:34:15.367
These were escalating --

722
00:34:15.367 --> 00:34:17.367
Yes.

723
00:34:17.367 --> 00:34:19.567
Remembering "Saturday Night Live," the first record.

724
00:34:19.567 --> 00:34:21.467
The first record, was it your manager or somebody who said,

725
00:34:21.467 --> 00:34:23.701
why don't we start recording these?

726
00:34:23.701 --> 00:34:25.901
And it became like a huge success as a comedy album, one

727
00:34:25.901 --> 00:34:28.434
of the best selling ever.

728
00:34:28.434 --> 00:34:30.868
Yes, well, not quite that easily, but we did.

729
00:34:30.868 --> 00:34:33.300
We started recording the act, yes.

730
00:34:33.300 --> 00:34:35.601
And my manager, Bill McEwan (ph), would sit there with

731
00:34:35.601 --> 00:34:37.601
(inaudible) and with tape, and you could hear him laughing all

732
00:34:37.601 --> 00:34:39.334
the time in the background on the records.

733
00:34:39.334 --> 00:34:41.133
But it sold really well.

734
00:34:41.133 --> 00:34:43.000
Yes.

735
00:34:43.000 --> 00:34:44.868
It sold really well.

736
00:34:44.868 --> 00:34:46.801
Famous comedy albums.

737
00:34:46.801 --> 00:34:48.501
They are both double platinum albums.

738
00:34:48.501 --> 00:34:50.000
Double platinum, what does that mean?

739
00:34:50.000 --> 00:34:51.934
It means they sold over 2 million copies.

740
00:34:51.934 --> 00:34:53.667
The -- Carson.

741
00:34:53.667 --> 00:34:55.267
Yes.

742
00:34:55.267 --> 00:34:56.901
In the beginning, you only were there when there

743
00:34:56.901 --> 00:34:58.534
were guest hosts.

744
00:34:58.534 --> 00:35:00.167
Yes, I went on a couple of times

745
00:35:00.167 --> 00:35:01.767
with Carson, and

746
00:35:01.767 --> 00:35:04.334
I did all right.

747
00:35:04.334 --> 00:35:06.601
It was like early 1972, I think.

748
00:35:06.601 --> 00:35:08.567
And I didn't have that much material, and so you go on with

749
00:35:08.567 --> 00:35:10.868
your best stuff, and you do well, and then you don't have

750
00:35:10.868 --> 00:35:12.801
anymore best stuff.

751
00:35:12.801 --> 00:35:14.767
You know?

752
00:35:14.767 --> 00:35:16.734
And the second time you go on, it's a little bit less.

753
00:35:16.734 --> 00:35:18.701
And then Johnny felt -- he said, "put him on with

754
00:35:18.701 --> 00:35:20.634
guest hosts for

755
00:35:20.634 --> 00:35:23.133
a while." So I went on with guest hosts --

756
00:35:23.133 --> 00:35:25.667
Oh, is that what he said?

757
00:35:25.667 --> 00:35:28.033
Yes, and I went on with guest hosts and did

758
00:35:28.033 --> 00:35:30.434
well, and then I -- he said, "yes, bring him back on."

759
00:35:30.434 --> 00:35:32.467
You have the record for the number of guest

760
00:35:32.467 --> 00:35:34.467
hosting of "Saturday Night Live."

761
00:35:34.467 --> 00:35:36.267
Yes, I mean -- it's not a big prize for it or

762
00:35:36.267 --> 00:35:38.067
anything --

763
00:35:38.067 --> 00:35:39.701
Well, it's a big deal, though, isn't it?

764
00:35:39.701 --> 00:35:41.167
I mean, you know.

765
00:35:41.167 --> 00:35:42.767
Yes, but I've been there since the beginning,

766
00:35:42.767 --> 00:35:44.467
you know.

767
00:35:44.467 --> 00:35:46.234
I haven't --

768
00:35:46.234 --> 00:35:48.267
How did that happen?

769
00:35:48.267 --> 00:35:50.267
I was just starting to break as "Saturday

770
00:35:50.267 --> 00:35:52.300
Night Live" was starting to break.

771
00:35:52.300 --> 00:35:54.300
And so I think George Carlin hosted the first show -- I

772
00:35:54.300 --> 00:35:55.801
wasn't on until the second year, really.

773
00:35:55.801 --> 00:35:57.100
Lorne was a friend or not?

774
00:35:57.100 --> 00:35:58.734
No, I didn't know him.

775
00:35:58.734 --> 00:36:00.467
Didn't know him.

776
00:36:00.467 --> 00:36:02.300
No, no.

777
00:36:02.300 --> 00:36:04.133
He became a very close friend.

778
00:36:04.133 --> 00:36:09.000
In fact, I'll mention his name, Lorne Michaels.

779
00:36:09.000 --> 00:36:11.200
Yes.

780
00:36:11.200 --> 00:36:13.400
And it was strictly agent to agent, but I

781
00:36:13.400 --> 00:36:15.601
had enough stuff going on that I was the young

782
00:36:15.601 --> 00:36:17.801
comedian who could

783
00:36:17.801 --> 00:36:21.400
host the show.

784
00:36:21.400 --> 00:36:24.634
You may have told me this, or someone else may

785
00:36:24.634 --> 00:36:27.834
have told me this -- you're one of those people who prepare

786
00:36:27.834 --> 00:36:30.968
really hard, knowing, you know, that if you do this well, it's

787
00:36:30.968 --> 00:36:33.868
great for you.

788
00:36:33.868 --> 00:36:36.567
Some people just sort of take it lighter than others do.

789
00:36:36.567 --> 00:36:39.167
I'm told -- and maybe you told me this -- you really

790
00:36:39.167 --> 00:36:41.734
concentrate on that week that you're going to host on

791
00:36:41.734 --> 00:36:43.901
Saturday Night Live.

792
00:36:43.901 --> 00:36:46.167
I do.

793
00:36:46.167 --> 00:36:49.000
I find it very stressful.

794
00:36:49.000 --> 00:36:51.667
Stressful?

795
00:36:51.667 --> 00:36:54.334
Because I want it to go well.

796
00:36:54.334 --> 00:36:57.133
So, you know, I do like to work hard on it, or

797
00:36:57.133 --> 00:36:59.534
at least feel comfortable.

798
00:36:59.534 --> 00:37:02.033
But I do -- I prepare for the Letterman show.

799
00:37:02.033 --> 00:37:04.400
And -- let's put it this way, I prepare -- but everybody

800
00:37:04.400 --> 00:37:06.701
prepares for those shows.

801
00:37:06.701 --> 00:37:08.701
You're interviewed ahead of time, it's like we're going to

802
00:37:08.701 --> 00:37:10.434
talk about this and we can talk about this, and we do a little

803
00:37:10.434 --> 00:37:12.000
bit of that, and I might have an idea -- hey, what if?

804
00:37:12.000 --> 00:37:13.934
We do this.

805
00:37:13.934 --> 00:37:18.000
And it's being a professional.

806
00:37:18.000 --> 00:37:19.667
You don't want to walk in there with nothing.

807
00:37:19.667 --> 00:37:21.200
That's exactly what it

808
00:37:21.200 --> 00:37:22.901
is, being a professional.

809
00:37:22.901 --> 00:37:24.434
Yes.

810
00:37:24.434 --> 00:37:26.067
Carson.

811
00:37:26.067 --> 00:37:27.567
Tell me about him, what you thought of him, what

812
00:37:27.567 --> 00:37:29.968
he meant to you.

813
00:37:29.968 --> 00:37:32.133
Because you wrote this famous piece when he died in "The New

814
00:37:32.133 --> 00:37:34.601
York Times."

815
00:37:34.601 --> 00:37:37.634
I'll tell you, here's what I think about him as

816
00:37:37.634 --> 00:37:41.033
a performer.

817
00:37:41.033 --> 00:37:44.200
When I was first on the show -- I think it was 1972 or something

818
00:37:44.200 --> 00:37:47.033
-- my manager and I had one of the first video recorders, reel

819
00:37:47.033 --> 00:37:49.968
to reel, and so he taped my performance off the air.

820
00:37:49.968 --> 00:37:52.934
And so now we're all excited.

821
00:37:52.934 --> 00:37:55.868
We're going to watch it.

822
00:37:55.868 --> 00:37:58.701
And so we're watching it -- I'm watching myself, remember, I'm

823
00:37:58.701 --> 00:38:01.133
watching myself -- and then we start watching Carson.

824
00:38:01.133 --> 00:38:03.834
And I realize, we ended up watching Carson.

825
00:38:03.834 --> 00:38:06.667
And then we slowed it down and played it back, look at this

826
00:38:06.667 --> 00:38:09.133
take, look at this take.

827
00:38:09.133 --> 00:38:11.434
He goes like this, he comes back, he gets the laugh.

828
00:38:11.434 --> 00:38:14.067
He looks at me because I said something oblique.

829
00:38:14.067 --> 00:38:16.534
He comes back again.

830
00:38:16.534 --> 00:38:19.667
It was just masterful.

831
00:38:19.667 --> 00:38:23.000
And he was just the simplest kind of artist.

832
00:38:23.000 --> 00:38:26.501
No art, you know.

833
00:38:26.501 --> 00:38:29.467
He was -- I just -- he always helped you out, too.

834
00:38:29.467 --> 00:38:32.734
You could tell his love of comedians, his love of, you

835
00:38:32.734 --> 00:38:36.067
know, little old ladies, you know, who came on and sewed log

836
00:38:36.067 --> 00:38:39.234
cabin quilts.

837
00:38:39.234 --> 00:38:42.133
And there was a real generosity there.

838
00:38:42.133 --> 00:38:44.834
I always felt, especially -- he loved comedy, and you could see

839
00:38:44.834 --> 00:38:47.067
him -- you always remember him just falling over laughing at

840
00:38:47.067 --> 00:38:49.267
Rickles or whoever.

841
00:38:49.267 --> 00:38:51.501
And he wanted to help you out.

842
00:38:51.501 --> 00:38:53.701
Yes, he always -- he always --

843
00:38:53.701 --> 00:38:55.934
you know, he always

844
00:38:55.934 --> 00:38:58.334
knew not to step on your joke.

845
00:38:58.334 --> 00:39:00.367
When did you do your last stand-up?

846
00:39:00.367 --> 00:39:03.000
It would have been 1981.

847
00:39:03.000 --> 00:39:05.601
This is three years after the tape we saw.

848
00:39:05.601 --> 00:39:08.934
Yes.

849
00:39:08.934 --> 00:39:12.300
And I was -- I was working in -- I think somewhere in Atlantic

850
00:39:12.300 --> 00:39:15.734
City or somewhere, a different kind of venue.

851
00:39:15.734 --> 00:39:18.701
Sort of one of those, you know, supper club-type situations.

852
00:39:18.701 --> 00:39:21.667
And I just -- I hadn't taken any bookings.

853
00:39:21.667 --> 00:39:24.634
I had just finished "The Jerk." And I hadn't -- and it had come

854
00:39:24.634 --> 00:39:27.334
out and it had been a hit.

855
00:39:27.334 --> 00:39:30.067
And I really didn't know if I was still a stand-up comedian or

856
00:39:30.067 --> 00:39:32.367
not, but the fact that I wasn't taking any bookings was telling

857
00:39:32.367 --> 00:39:34.300
me I was probably quitting.

858
00:39:34.300 --> 00:39:36.267
You didn't enjoy it anymore or

859
00:39:36.267 --> 00:39:38.200
it had become routine?

860
00:39:38.200 --> 00:39:40.167
It became routine and I -- I

861
00:39:40.167 --> 00:39:42.133
guess, you know, you

862
00:39:42.133 --> 00:39:44.133
don't enjoy it anyway, because, you know, you're --

863
00:39:44.133 --> 00:39:45.901
Because it's hard.

864
00:39:45.901 --> 00:39:47.701
It's hard, and you're thinking

865
00:39:47.701 --> 00:39:49.734
about it all the time.

866
00:39:49.734 --> 00:39:52.434
You're working.

867
00:39:52.434 --> 00:39:55.133
It's a real -- it's an artistic job, and it's -- like a ballet.

868
00:39:55.133 --> 00:39:58.133
I mean, I wonder if -- I don't know if a ballet dancer, you

869
00:39:58.133 --> 00:40:00.634
know, does a giant leap and is actually free in their mind or

870
00:40:00.634 --> 00:40:02.767
they're thinking, whew!

871
00:40:02.767 --> 00:40:05.467
Was it satisfying for you to write this book and

872
00:40:05.467 --> 00:40:08.200
look back?

873
00:40:08.200 --> 00:40:10.467
Very satisfying.

874
00:40:10.467 --> 00:40:12.701
And by the way, just to say, I did enjoy doing it.

875
00:40:12.701 --> 00:40:14.601
There were times it was just magic out there.

876
00:40:14.601 --> 00:40:16.701
And --

877
00:40:16.701 --> 00:40:19.300
Magic like you've never felt before in any other

878
00:40:19.300 --> 00:40:21.868
kind of performance?

879
00:40:21.868 --> 00:40:24.267
Well, performing was fun.

880
00:40:24.267 --> 00:40:26.434
It was all the other stuff that was age-related.

881
00:40:26.434 --> 00:40:28.601
As you get older, you don't want to go to a

882
00:40:28.601 --> 00:40:30.734
different town every night.

883
00:40:30.734 --> 00:40:32.901
And when I made my first film, I thought, oh, I

884
00:40:32.901 --> 00:40:35.067
stay home and the

885
00:40:35.067 --> 00:40:36.801
movie goes to their town.

886
00:40:36.801 --> 00:40:38.501
Oh, this is good!

887
00:40:38.501 --> 00:40:40.234
Yes.

888
00:40:40.234 --> 00:40:41.934
But you had never -- David

889
00:40:41.934 --> 00:40:43.667
Geffen said you should

890
00:40:43.667 --> 00:40:45.567
go back.

891
00:40:45.567 --> 00:40:47.267
Oh, in the '80s.

892
00:40:47.267 --> 00:40:49.367
In the '80s, he called me, and he said, you know what you

893
00:40:49.367 --> 00:40:51.200
should do?

894
00:40:51.200 --> 00:40:53.067
I said, "what?"

895
00:40:53.067 --> 00:40:54.701
He said, "go back on the road." And I said, "David, I don't

896
00:40:54.701 --> 00:40:56.667
have anything to say."

897
00:40:56.667 --> 00:40:58.767
I have nothing I want to say.

898
00:40:58.767 --> 00:41:00.567
Yes.

899
00:41:00.567 --> 00:41:02.601
I mean, there's no reason to go out there just to do comedy.

900
00:41:02.601 --> 00:41:04.968
I mean, with that act, I actually had -- I think that was

901
00:41:04.968 --> 00:41:07.000
one reason I quit.

902
00:41:07.000 --> 00:41:09.000
The act I felt I actually had something to say -- and I don't

903
00:41:09.000 --> 00:41:11.033
mean truth, life and beauty -- just something artistically to

904
00:41:11.033 --> 00:41:13.033
say --

905
00:41:13.033 --> 00:41:15.033
You had created something --

906
00:41:15.033 --> 00:41:16.801
-- and I said it.

907
00:41:16.801 --> 00:41:18.367
-- that you wanted to share.

908
00:41:18.367 --> 00:41:19.801
Yes, or try, or experiment, see if it worked.

909
00:41:19.801 --> 00:41:21.634
And it worked.

910
00:41:21.634 --> 00:41:23.834
And then it was done.

911
00:41:23.834 --> 00:41:26.033
You keep moving.

912
00:41:26.033 --> 00:41:28.234
You know, I think at the end of the book, I make the point that

913
00:41:28.234 --> 00:41:30.434
I was having a discussion with a friend of mine,

914
00:41:30.434 --> 00:41:32.634
Eric Fischl, the

915
00:41:32.634 --> 00:41:35.701
painter, and he was saying that -- we were discussing the

916
00:41:35.701 --> 00:41:38.501
similarities between therapy and making art, that you're both

917
00:41:38.501 --> 00:41:40.834
exploring your subconscious.

918
00:41:40.834 --> 00:41:43.567
And he said, "but there's a difference." He said, "in

919
00:41:43.567 --> 00:41:46.133
therapy, you try to retain your discoveries.

920
00:41:46.133 --> 00:41:49.133
In art, you abandon them."

921
00:41:49.133 --> 00:41:51.968
Have you ever done a performance and thought,

922
00:41:51.968 --> 00:41:55.033
this is as good as I'll ever be?

923
00:41:55.033 --> 00:41:58.501
You know, probably.

924
00:41:58.501 --> 00:42:01.601
When was it?

925
00:42:01.601 --> 00:42:04.601
It would have been somewhere around 1975.

926
00:42:04.601 --> 00:42:07.367
I mean, it wasn't downhill from there, but looking back now, I

927
00:42:07.367 --> 00:42:10.000
go that's when I was really funny.

928
00:42:10.000 --> 00:42:12.701
And I think the reason I was really funny is the act was

929
00:42:12.701 --> 00:42:15.767
unknown to people.

930
00:42:15.767 --> 00:42:18.834
It had not been exposed like it became exposed.

931
00:42:18.834 --> 00:42:21.701
Like by 1978, the act you saw, everybody is way ahead of it.

932
00:42:21.701 --> 00:42:24.467
You argue here in this book that, in fact, our

933
00:42:24.467 --> 00:42:26.801
failures are more interesting than our successes.

934
00:42:26.801 --> 00:42:28.801
Yes.

935
00:42:28.801 --> 00:42:31.467
Getting there is more

936
00:42:31.467 --> 00:42:34.133
interesting than being there.

937
00:42:34.133 --> 00:42:36.634
Yes.

938
00:42:36.634 --> 00:42:39.000
I wrote the book -- when I first started writing a memoir, I

939
00:42:39.000 --> 00:42:41.534
really didn't know where to stop -- I hadn't even started

940
00:42:41.534 --> 00:42:44.167
writing, I was just thinking about it.

941
00:42:44.167 --> 00:42:46.467
I thought, well, I don't want to write about the '80s.

942
00:42:46.467 --> 00:42:49.133
It's just a movie and then I did another movie, and then I did

943
00:42:49.133 --> 00:42:51.767
another movie, and another movie, and then I

944
00:42:51.767 --> 00:42:54.100
made another movie.

945
00:42:54.100 --> 00:42:56.434
But there was something about the genesis of something that

946
00:42:56.434 --> 00:42:58.767
is, I think, worth writing about.

947
00:42:58.767 --> 00:43:01.100
One, for people who are starting their own

948
00:43:01.100 --> 00:43:03.434
careers or own genesis

949
00:43:03.434 --> 00:43:06.534
in something.

950
00:43:06.534 --> 00:43:09.100
But it's before you make it.

951
00:43:09.100 --> 00:43:11.801
Because I read show business autobiographies or

952
00:43:11.801 --> 00:43:14.300
autobiographies in general, and say, but you left out this one

953
00:43:14.300 --> 00:43:16.701
part here.

954
00:43:16.701 --> 00:43:18.734
How did you get that audition for that thing?

955
00:43:18.734 --> 00:43:20.767
Exactly.

956
00:43:20.767 --> 00:43:22.801
Suddenly you're work at the Copa.

957
00:43:22.801 --> 00:43:25.033
Wait, how did that happen?

958
00:43:25.033 --> 00:43:27.267
And I think that's the really interesting part.

959
00:43:27.267 --> 00:43:29.501
That's the part I think that people -- people with

960
00:43:29.501 --> 00:43:31.467
aspirations in show business -- really want to know about.

961
00:43:31.467 --> 00:43:33.434
You've had people, interesting people in

962
00:43:33.434 --> 00:43:35.167
your life like Mitzi, who made a difference.

963
00:43:35.167 --> 00:43:36.968
Mitzi Trumbo.

964
00:43:36.968 --> 00:43:39.167
Daughter of Dalton Trumbo.

965
00:43:39.167 --> 00:43:41.367
Right, right.

966
00:43:41.367 --> 00:43:43.534
What difference did she make?

967
00:43:43.534 --> 00:43:45.734
Well, she was -- I was 20 and

968
00:43:45.734 --> 00:43:47.934
remember, I am from

969
00:43:47.934 --> 00:43:50.801
Orange County, California.

970
00:43:50.801 --> 00:43:53.734
I was not -- I was in college, but I wasn't really -- well, by

971
00:43:53.734 --> 00:43:56.801
that point I was avid, but I met her, and we dated, and then she

972
00:43:56.801 --> 00:43:59.667
took me home to meet her parents.

973
00:43:59.667 --> 00:44:02.701
And her father was Dalton Trumbo, the blacklisted

974
00:44:02.701 --> 00:44:05.701
notorious screenwriter, and he was an intellectual, and the

975
00:44:05.701 --> 00:44:08.767
whole family was intellectual.

976
00:44:08.767 --> 00:44:11.734
And I didn't know that existed, and I didn't know you could have

977
00:44:11.734 --> 00:44:15.501
a dinner where people would go, "I'm not telling you" -- you

978
00:44:15.501 --> 00:44:19.601
know, and they are arguing about politics and this and you know

979
00:44:19.601 --> 00:44:23.200
-- and it was just a free-thinking household.

980
00:44:23.200 --> 00:44:26.400
And they had paintings and they had nice, you know, taste.

981
00:44:26.400 --> 00:44:29.267
And, you know, food came from behind closed

982
00:44:29.267 --> 00:44:31.701
doors and was served.

983
00:44:31.701 --> 00:44:34.033
And it was just --

984
00:44:34.033 --> 00:44:36.400
A new experience.

985
00:44:36.400 --> 00:44:38.467
Opened your eyes.

986
00:44:38.467 --> 00:44:41.367
Writers, writers talking.

987
00:44:41.367 --> 00:44:44.000
As an act, where do you put stand-up as a

988
00:44:44.000 --> 00:44:46.901
performing art?

989
00:44:46.901 --> 00:44:49.434
OK, here's Van Gogh, here's stand-up.

990
00:44:49.434 --> 00:44:52.000
No, I'm kidding.

991
00:44:52.000 --> 00:44:54.467
It's a performing art, you know, it's a performing art --

992
00:44:54.467 --> 00:44:56.868
wherever those things stand.

993
00:44:56.868 --> 00:44:59.334
I don't think it's -- it's very hard to judge because --

994
00:44:59.334 --> 00:45:01.701
Some people say it's the hardest thing you could

995
00:45:01.701 --> 00:45:03.934
possibly do, to make people laugh.

996
00:45:03.934 --> 00:45:05.968
It's much easier to be an actor, much easier, they say.

997
00:45:05.968 --> 00:45:07.901
Well, that's -- I think it's hard to answer

998
00:45:07.901 --> 00:45:09.667
because I always think of the best metaphor in the world,

999
00:45:09.667 --> 00:45:11.267
which is the briar patch.

1000
00:45:11.267 --> 00:45:13.234
Which is I have no idea.

1001
00:45:13.234 --> 00:45:14.968
It's what I did all the time.

1002
00:45:14.968 --> 00:45:16.501
I don't know how hard it is.

1003
00:45:16.501 --> 00:45:17.901
People say, "is it harder to play the banjo or guitar?"

1004
00:45:17.901 --> 00:45:19.200
I don't know.

1005
00:45:19.200 --> 00:45:20.701
I only play the banjo.

1006
00:45:20.701 --> 00:45:22.067
I don't know.

1007
00:45:22.067 --> 00:45:23.701
I don't know.

1008
00:45:23.701 --> 00:45:25.567
You have loved art for a long time.

1009
00:45:25.567 --> 00:45:27.634
Yes, painting.

1010
00:45:27.634 --> 00:45:29.434
You said for example, "If there's something I

1011
00:45:29.434 --> 00:45:31.667
could pretend to have learned from modern art, it's that you

1012
00:45:31.667 --> 00:45:33.567
can't make something beautiful by trying to

1013
00:45:33.567 --> 00:45:35.300
make something beautiful.

1014
00:45:35.300 --> 00:45:36.834
It becomes beautiful in the process of

1015
00:45:36.834 --> 00:45:38.501
being something else."

1016
00:45:38.501 --> 00:45:39.968
I said that?

1017
00:45:39.968 --> 00:45:41.601
You did.

1018
00:45:41.601 --> 00:45:43.300
You said that in "New Yorker" magazine, I think.

1019
00:45:43.300 --> 00:45:44.834
Wow.

1020
00:45:44.834 --> 00:45:46.234
That's pretty good, though.

1021
00:45:46.234 --> 00:45:47.801
It is pretty good.

1022
00:45:47.801 --> 00:45:51.200
But it's true --

1023
00:45:51.200 --> 00:45:53.000
-- believe it, I mean --

1024
00:45:53.000 --> 00:45:54.868
You could almost say life is like that.

1025
00:45:54.868 --> 00:45:56.501
Yes, yes, if you were trying to make a perfect

1026
00:45:56.501 --> 00:45:58.234
life, you probably couldn't do it.

1027
00:45:58.234 --> 00:45:59.801
If you are just trying to live life from day to day, you'd

1028
00:45:59.801 --> 00:46:01.467
probably end up having --

1029
00:46:01.467 --> 00:46:02.968
What was it John Lennon said, I mean, life

1030
00:46:02.968 --> 00:46:04.567
happens when you're --

1031
00:46:04.567 --> 00:46:06.033
When you're doing something else, looking the

1032
00:46:06.033 --> 00:46:07.667
other way.

1033
00:46:07.667 --> 00:46:09.367
Something like that, yes, right.

1034
00:46:09.367 --> 00:46:11.767
Yes.

1035
00:46:11.767 --> 00:46:14.734
What happened to the relationship with your

1036
00:46:14.734 --> 00:46:17.834
father as you're becoming more and more successful?

1037
00:46:17.834 --> 00:46:21.534
Well, we -- it was complicated, because I began

1038
00:46:21.534 --> 00:46:24.567
to notice something, that he was not complimentary -- this is

1039
00:46:24.567 --> 00:46:26.801
toward my career -- not complimentary at all.

1040
00:46:26.801 --> 00:46:29.033
And I think it came from that he actually didn't like what I was

1041
00:46:29.033 --> 00:46:31.300
doing, you know.

1042
00:46:31.300 --> 00:46:33.267
He wrote a review for the "Real

1043
00:46:33.267 --> 00:46:35.234
Estate Journal" or

1044
00:46:35.234 --> 00:46:37.200
something --

1045
00:46:37.200 --> 00:46:39.167
Yes, he gave me a bad review

1046
00:46:39.167 --> 00:46:41.133
once, which was, you

1047
00:46:41.133 --> 00:46:43.634
know, and he told me later he was ashamed about it.

1048
00:46:43.634 --> 00:46:46.100
He had written this bad review of my first appearance on

1049
00:46:46.100 --> 00:46:49.133
"Saturday Night Live," and he said -- I think he was kind of

1050
00:46:49.133 --> 00:46:51.667
confessing that he had done the wrong thing.

1051
00:46:51.667 --> 00:46:54.601
And he said, his best friend came in to him with the

1052
00:46:54.601 --> 00:46:57.100
newspaper in his hand, and he put it on my father's desk and

1053
00:46:57.100 --> 00:46:59.501
he went.

1054
00:46:59.501 --> 00:47:01.868
But then he got to see the movies.

1055
00:47:01.868 --> 00:47:04.167
Yes.

1056
00:47:04.167 --> 00:47:06.767
The movies he was not particularly pleased with.

1057
00:47:06.767 --> 00:47:09.200
He only started being pleased when I started writing.

1058
00:47:09.200 --> 00:47:11.300
He liked the books.

1059
00:47:11.300 --> 00:47:13.133
But like I say, my material and my stand-up act,

1060
00:47:13.133 --> 00:47:14.801
it was a young person's act.

1061
00:47:14.801 --> 00:47:18.100
It was generational.

1062
00:47:18.100 --> 00:47:19.767
Like the parents would go, "what

1063
00:47:19.767 --> 00:47:21.434
do you like that

1064
00:47:21.434 --> 00:47:23.868
stuff for?"

1065
00:47:23.868 --> 00:47:26.467
And the kids would be going, "what are you talking about?

1066
00:47:26.467 --> 00:47:28.667
It's fantastic." You know, and he was an older generation, so

1067
00:47:28.667 --> 00:47:30.601
he couldn't really appreciate it.

1068
00:47:30.601 --> 00:47:32.267
If people said you're silly, you would love it.

1069
00:47:32.267 --> 00:47:33.601
Pardon me?

1070
00:47:33.601 --> 00:47:36.267
Oh, yes. Right.

1071
00:47:36.267 --> 00:47:37.567
If they described you as silly,

1072
00:47:37.567 --> 00:47:38.901
you'd say, you get

1073
00:47:38.901 --> 00:47:40.501
the point.

1074
00:47:40.501 --> 00:47:41.934
That's what I am, silly.

1075
00:47:41.934 --> 00:47:43.734
Exactly.

1076
00:47:43.734 --> 00:47:46.133
But also, my father got -- he started to help

1077
00:47:46.133 --> 00:47:49.267
me in certain ways.

1078
00:47:49.267 --> 00:47:52.133
He was in real estate, so he knew how to handle property.

1079
00:47:52.133 --> 00:47:54.801
He handled my fan club for a while, when I had a fan club.

1080
00:47:54.801 --> 00:47:57.267
And so -- and he would handle autographed pictures and things

1081
00:47:57.267 --> 00:47:59.400
-- sign this, sign this, sign this, you know.

1082
00:47:59.400 --> 00:48:02.334
I would sign them, he would present them to me.

1083
00:48:02.334 --> 00:48:04.767
And so how did you come back together, so that

1084
00:48:04.767 --> 00:48:06.868
in the bell curve --

1085
00:48:06.868 --> 00:48:08.701
Well, I started taking them to

1086
00:48:08.701 --> 00:48:10.367
lunch every Sunday.

1087
00:48:10.367 --> 00:48:12.534
First together?

1088
00:48:12.534 --> 00:48:14.767
First together.

1089
00:48:14.767 --> 00:48:17.167
I said, I want to find out about our past, first of all.

1090
00:48:17.167 --> 00:48:19.767
And so I would take them out to lunch and I would probe them and

1091
00:48:19.767 --> 00:48:22.467
ask them questions.

1092
00:48:22.467 --> 00:48:25.100
And then I realized that every time my mother would say

1093
00:48:25.100 --> 00:48:28.000
something, or vice versa, or my father would say something, the

1094
00:48:28.000 --> 00:48:30.801
spouse would say, "well, that's not what happened." And they

1095
00:48:30.801 --> 00:48:33.367
would get into a fight.

1096
00:48:33.367 --> 00:48:35.834
So I started taking them out one at a time, and I would get

1097
00:48:35.834 --> 00:48:38.434
all the stories that way.

1098
00:48:38.434 --> 00:48:41.434
And, you know, that makes you closer to someone when you're

1099
00:48:41.434 --> 00:48:45.067
seeing them every weekend.

1100
00:48:45.067 --> 00:48:48.334
How was it when he was near death?

1101
00:48:48.334 --> 00:48:51.267
He started to change.

1102
00:48:51.267 --> 00:48:54.400
He always was a task master.

1103
00:48:54.400 --> 00:48:57.300
He always -- very opinionated.

1104
00:48:57.300 --> 00:49:00.167
Let's put it that way.

1105
00:49:00.167 --> 00:49:02.601
But he did start to soften, especially nearer the end.

1106
00:49:02.601 --> 00:49:05.033
He became -- it was very strange.

1107
00:49:05.033 --> 00:49:08.133
He could become very emotional just sitting in a chair, just

1108
00:49:08.133 --> 00:49:11.400
start crying.

1109
00:49:11.400 --> 00:49:14.501
Especially he would cry with joy.

1110
00:49:14.501 --> 00:49:17.334
If he started laughing, he would start to cry.

1111
00:49:17.334 --> 00:49:19.834
He was a very emotional man, but I think it was -- he was raised

1112
00:49:19.834 --> 00:49:22.200
in a time when it was not very cool to be emotional.

1113
00:49:22.200 --> 00:49:24.234
How old was he when he died?

1114
00:49:24.234 --> 00:49:26.000
83.

1115
00:49:26.000 --> 00:49:27.801
You've made movies now.

1116
00:49:27.801 --> 00:49:29.834
You never wanted to direct.

1117
00:49:29.834 --> 00:49:31.634
You don't want to direct.

1118
00:49:31.634 --> 00:49:33.234
It's too hard.

1119
00:49:33.234 --> 00:49:34.701
Well, you know what it is, it's like you love

1120
00:49:34.701 --> 00:49:36.267
your life too much.

1121
00:49:36.267 --> 00:49:38.234
Isn't it?

1122
00:49:38.234 --> 00:49:39.968
Uh-huh.

1123
00:49:39.968 --> 00:49:42.300
You love your art and you love your writing and

1124
00:49:42.300 --> 00:49:44.467
you love all this other stuff, and that takes -- it's like

1125
00:49:44.467 --> 00:49:46.868
being a general.

1126
00:49:46.868 --> 00:49:49.267
Yes, I have a fantasy, maybe, that -- if I had

1127
00:49:49.267 --> 00:49:51.634
the right thing or something.

1128
00:49:51.634 --> 00:49:53.834
But, you know, as soon as you -- as you do that, you say goodbye

1129
00:49:53.834 --> 00:49:56.801
to friends and family.

1130
00:49:56.801 --> 00:49:59.367
And I've seen other people manage it, but I

1131
00:49:59.367 --> 00:50:01.868
don't think I could.

1132
00:50:01.868 --> 00:50:04.534
I like the actual -- with directing, there's a lot of

1133
00:50:04.534 --> 00:50:07.167
superfluous decisions.

1134
00:50:07.167 --> 00:50:09.400
I won't call them superfluous, because every decision matters,

1135
00:50:09.400 --> 00:50:12.434
but it's a big -- it is a general's job.

1136
00:50:12.434 --> 00:50:15.234
And I really like -- if I could direct the actors in a movie,

1137
00:50:15.234 --> 00:50:18.767
that would be great.

1138
00:50:18.767 --> 00:50:22.701
What is it you want to do?

1139
00:50:22.701 --> 00:50:26.567
Well, that's a good question.

1140
00:50:26.567 --> 00:50:30.834
That's really open right now, because here I am, I've written

1141
00:50:30.834 --> 00:50:34.300
this book, I'm getting the Kennedy Center honor next week,

1142
00:50:34.300 --> 00:50:38.167
and I do think what should I be doing?

1143
00:50:38.167 --> 00:50:41.834
I've sort of -- if I wanted to think about it as a closed

1144
00:50:41.834 --> 00:50:44.901
circle, I could.

1145
00:50:44.901 --> 00:50:47.701
I could say, OK, I did it.

1146
00:50:47.701 --> 00:50:50.300
But I know I'm not going to do that, because I do have ideas

1147
00:50:50.300 --> 00:50:52.667
that keep coming.

1148
00:50:52.667 --> 00:50:55.701
So I don't know quite what they are.

1149
00:50:55.701 --> 00:50:59.434
You're most of all a writer?

1150
00:50:59.434 --> 00:51:03.133
Well, no.

1151
00:51:03.133 --> 00:51:06.267
I deeply enjoy writing, but I would say I'm a comedian.

1152
00:51:06.267 --> 00:51:09.133
And I probably will always be a comedian as a label and probably

1153
00:51:09.133 --> 00:51:11.534
inside my head, but I know -- most of my books are serious.

1154
00:51:11.534 --> 00:51:13.801
And wel received.

1155
00:51:13.801 --> 00:51:16.067
Well received, yes.

1156
00:51:16.067 --> 00:51:18.334
It's nice.

1157
00:51:18.334 --> 00:51:20.567
Do you think you are more

1158
00:51:20.567 --> 00:51:25.167
prodigious than you are smart?

1159
00:51:25.167 --> 00:51:28.400
You know, that you really -- it's your work ethic and your

1160
00:51:28.400 --> 00:51:31.200
powers of focus --

1161
00:51:31.200 --> 00:51:33.534
Yes.

1162
00:51:33.534 --> 00:51:35.801
-- and your ability to leave no stone

1163
00:51:35.801 --> 00:51:37.801
unturned that makes you --

1164
00:51:37.801 --> 00:51:39.834
Absolutely.

1165
00:51:39.834 --> 00:51:41.834
I mean, I have friends that I think are supremely

1166
00:51:41.834 --> 00:51:43.868
intellectual, and I sit and just listen and I

1167
00:51:43.868 --> 00:51:45.868
think I'm an idiot.

1168
00:51:45.868 --> 00:51:49.133
I do too.

1169
00:51:49.133 --> 00:51:52.200
But I do think diligence had a lot to do with

1170
00:51:52.200 --> 00:51:55.234
it, but it wasn't diligence.

1171
00:51:55.234 --> 00:51:58.300
It wasn't -- it was just kind of this weird -- it was like

1172
00:51:58.300 --> 00:52:01.334
shutting out other things rather than being

1173
00:52:01.334 --> 00:52:04.400
focused on one thing.

1174
00:52:04.400 --> 00:52:08.434
It was like by eliminating peripheral interests, somehow I

1175
00:52:08.434 --> 00:52:12.200
was able to stay focused on my comedy act or banjo playing.

1176
00:52:12.200 --> 00:52:16.367
Someone stood up in an audience somewhere and

1177
00:52:16.367 --> 00:52:20.067
said to you, "how do you be successful?"

1178
00:52:20.067 --> 00:52:24.000
And you said "you have to be undeniably good at something."

1179
00:52:24.000 --> 00:52:27.934
Well, it really is this -- when people ask me,

1180
00:52:27.934 --> 00:52:31.434
say, "how do you make it in show business?"

1181
00:52:31.434 --> 00:52:34.534
Or whatever, and what I always tell them -- I've said it many

1182
00:52:34.534 --> 00:52:37.133
years and nobody ever takes note of it, because it's not the

1183
00:52:37.133 --> 00:52:39.300
answer they wanted to hear.

1184
00:52:39.300 --> 00:52:42.234
What they want to hear is, here's how you get an agent.

1185
00:52:42.234 --> 00:52:45.400
Here's how you write a script.

1186
00:52:45.400 --> 00:52:48.734
Here's how you do this.

1187
00:52:48.734 --> 00:52:52.367
But I always say, "be so good they can't ignore you." And I

1188
00:52:52.367 --> 00:52:55.534
just think that if somebody is thinking, how can I be really

1189
00:52:55.534 --> 00:52:58.601
good, people are going to come to you.

1190
00:52:58.601 --> 00:53:01.200
It's much easier than -- doing it that way than going to

1191
00:53:01.200 --> 00:53:04.067
cocktail parties, you know.

1192
00:53:04.067 --> 00:53:06.467
"Born Standing Up: A Comic's

1193
00:53:06.467 --> 00:53:08.634
Life," by Steve Martin.

1194
00:53:08.634 --> 00:53:10.534
This is a terrific understanding of one person's life, and I

1195
00:53:10.534 --> 00:53:25.501
thank you for coming.

1196
00:53:25.501 --> 00:53:37.200
Thank you.

1197
00:53:37.200 --> 00:53:48.901
Thank you for joining us.

1198
00:53:48.901 --> 
See you next time.