WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:00.133 Dawn Steel. 2 00:00:00.133 --> 00:00:03.267 She knew nothing about making movies when she arrived in 3 00:00:03.267 --> 00:00:06.400 Hollywood in the late 1970s, but she had a knack for selling or 4 00:00:06.400 --> 00:00:09.501 merchandising just about anything, from novelty item for 5 00:00:09.501 --> 00:00:12.367 Penthouse Magazine to her own design of toilet tissue. 6 00:00:12.367 --> 00:00:15.434 In one decade, the New York native made Hollywood history. 7 00:00:15.434 --> 00:00:18.434 She applied her talents to marketing the film Star Trek for 8 00:00:18.434 --> 00:00:21.167 Paramount Pictures. 9 00:00:21.167 --> 00:00:23.834 In six months, she became a vice president, and in 1985, 10 00:00:23.834 --> 00:00:26.334 president of production. 11 00:00:26.334 --> 00:00:28.901 Two years later she became the first woman to head a major 12 00:00:28.901 --> 00:00:31.467 studio as president of Columbia Pictures. 13 00:00:31.467 --> 00:00:34.000 She lost that job. 14 00:00:34.000 --> 00:00:36.434 She is now an independent producer with two inspirational 15 00:00:36.434 --> 00:00:38.934 projects: a biography of her Hollywood years, and a new film 16 00:00:38.934 --> 00:00:41.467 on the Jamaican Olympic bobsled team, which is 17 00:00:41.467 --> 00:00:43.801 called Cool Runnings. 18 00:00:43.801 --> 00:00:45.734 We're pleased to have her here to talk not only about this 19 00:00:45.734 --> 00:00:47.434 book, which is called They Can Kill You, But They Can't Eat 20 00:00:47.434 --> 00:00:50.901 You: Lessons from the Front. Welcome. 21 00:00:50.901 --> 00:00:52.734 Great to meet you. 22 00:00:52.734 --> 00:00:54.501 Thanks. Great to meet you. 23 00:00:54.501 --> 00:00:56.400 Let me talk first about the biography of you, 24 00:00:56.400 --> 00:00:58.100 in a sense. 25 00:00:58.100 --> 00:00:59.634 Grew up here, in the East. 26 00:00:59.634 --> 00:01:01.567 Went to work for Penthouse. 27 00:01:01.567 --> 00:01:03.434 Went to work for Penthouse. 28 00:01:03.434 --> 00:01:05.033 That was after I had been a sports 29 00:01:05.033 --> 00:01:06.367 editor/writer/receptionist/secretary for a minute. 30 00:01:06.367 --> 00:01:08.100 Doing what, marketing? 31 00:01:08.100 --> 00:01:09.601 At Penthouse? 32 00:01:09.601 --> 00:01:11.167 Yeah. 33 00:01:11.167 --> 00:01:12.467 Yes. Again, I started there again 34 00:01:12.467 --> 00:01:14.100 as a secretary/receptionist. 35 00:01:14.100 --> 00:01:15.534 I sort of made a lateral move. 36 00:01:15.534 --> 00:01:17.400 You really better make these 37 00:01:17.400 --> 00:01:19.567 secretary/receptionist things go! 38 00:01:19.567 --> 00:01:21.767 I finally got good at it, you know? 39 00:01:21.767 --> 00:01:23.868 Bob Guccione promoted me one day, and he said, "You're going 40 00:01:23.868 --> 00:01:25.701 to be head of merchandising." I said, "What's merchandising?" 41 00:01:25.701 --> 00:01:27.434 -- and he said, "Goodbye, good luck, and break a leg!" 42 00:01:27.434 --> 00:01:29.200 So there off I went. 43 00:01:29.200 --> 00:01:31.300 But you quit that later and went out on 44 00:01:31.300 --> 00:01:33.200 your own and had your own little company in which you 45 00:01:33.200 --> 00:01:34.868 did designer toilet tissue. 46 00:01:34.868 --> 00:01:36.300 Gucci toilet tissue. Toilet paper. 47 00:01:36.300 --> 00:01:37.667 But didn't they complain about it? 48 00:01:37.667 --> 00:01:38.934 Complained, yes. 49 00:01:38.934 --> 00:01:40.467 They sued me! 50 00:01:40.467 --> 00:01:42.267 They sued you, is what they did. 51 00:01:42.267 --> 00:01:43.801 Yes. 52 00:01:43.801 --> 00:01:45.434 Then, what you did next is you decided, "Well, 53 00:01:45.434 --> 00:01:46.834 Hollywood, here I come." 54 00:01:46.834 --> 00:01:48.367 You go from toilet paper 55 00:01:48.367 --> 00:01:49.767 to Hollywood, don't you think? 56 00:01:49.767 --> 00:01:51.267 Yes. 57 00:01:51.267 --> 00:01:52.934 I don't get the connection, but I'm sure it's there. 58 00:01:52.934 --> 00:01:54.601 It's there somehow. 59 00:01:54.601 --> 00:01:56.801 You arrive there, and how do you land this first 60 00:01:56.801 --> 00:01:59.200 big job? 61 00:01:59.200 --> 00:02:01.501 Well, I thought I was never going to get a job. 62 00:02:01.501 --> 00:02:04.234 I went there and I knocked on doors, and I kept knocking on 63 00:02:04.234 --> 00:02:06.968 doors, this whole notion of not giving up, if you will. 64 00:02:06.968 --> 00:02:09.667 I kept at it, and finally I got a job in merchandising as the 65 00:02:09.667 --> 00:02:12.701 second person in the division, and Star Trek was the first 66 00:02:12.701 --> 00:02:15.701 project on my plate. 67 00:02:15.701 --> 00:02:18.767 What I didn't know was that the man above me had much larger 68 00:02:18.767 --> 00:02:21.901 aspirations, and he left, and I was there, sort of holding the 69 00:02:21.901 --> 00:02:25.067 Star Trek bag, if you will. 70 00:02:25.067 --> 00:02:28.334 I started to merchandise Star Trek, and merchandise it and 71 00:02:28.334 --> 00:02:31.067 merchandise it, and I merchandised it to such a degree 72 00:02:31.067 --> 00:02:33.868 that there was a cartoon in the New Yorker soon after that said, 73 00:02:33.868 --> 00:02:36.234 "Star Trek: the ashtray." That's when I got promoted, 74 00:02:36.234 --> 00:02:38.200 because of the ashtray. 75 00:02:38.200 --> 00:02:39.901 At Paramount at that time was, guess who? 76 00:02:39.901 --> 00:02:41.968 Diller? 77 00:02:41.968 --> 00:02:44.133 Barry Diller. 78 00:02:44.133 --> 00:02:46.167 Right. 79 00:02:46.167 --> 00:02:48.400 Michael Eisner. Jeffry Katzenberg. 80 00:02:48.400 --> 00:02:50.334 People who now have important 81 00:02:50.334 --> 00:02:52.033 positions in the telecommunications. 82 00:02:52.033 --> 00:02:53.501 Michael Eisner went on to become head of Disney, 83 00:02:53.501 --> 00:02:57.000 Katzenberg is his -- whatever. 84 00:02:57.000 --> 00:02:58.868 His everything. 85 00:02:58.868 --> 00:03:00.601 His everything. All right. 86 00:03:00.601 --> 00:03:03.100 You became part of their team. 87 00:03:03.100 --> 00:03:05.267 What was it that made you and brought you, so that they 88 00:03:05.267 --> 00:03:07.434 brought you into the circle, and how much did they bring you 89 00:03:07.434 --> 00:03:09.634 into the circle, at Paramount? 90 00:03:09.634 --> 00:03:11.801 Well, I don't think I was brought 91 00:03:11.801 --> 00:03:13.968 into the circle at 92 00:03:13.968 --> 00:03:17.033 all, but I didn't know it, because I didn't know anything. 93 00:03:17.033 --> 00:03:20.100 I had no idea what the job was about at that point, and all I 94 00:03:20.100 --> 00:03:23.200 knew was that it was my job to get a movie made. 95 00:03:23.200 --> 00:03:26.300 Diller used to say that he was amazed if anyone ever got a 96 00:03:26.300 --> 00:03:29.133 movie mad from the level I was at, which was really low. 97 00:03:29.133 --> 00:03:31.968 The lesson I learned, and the lesson that I learned from him, 98 00:03:31.968 --> 00:03:34.501 was passion rules, and it still does for him, and it still does 99 00:03:34.501 --> 00:03:36.968 for me. 100 00:03:36.968 --> 00:03:39.033 If you're passionate about something, it's clear and it 101 00:03:39.033 --> 00:03:41.000 becomes clear. 102 00:03:41.000 --> 00:03:42.868 He continues to say that and articulate that as 103 00:03:42.868 --> 00:03:44.501 a philosophy. 104 00:03:44.501 --> 00:03:46.033 Continues, absolutely. 105 00:03:46.033 --> 00:03:47.667 You became head of production, 106 00:03:47.667 --> 00:03:49.334 though, for Paramount. 107 00:03:49.334 --> 00:03:51.000 Yes. 108 00:03:51.000 --> 00:03:52.634 This book is about 109 00:03:52.634 --> 00:03:54.300 understanding -- it's a woman's 110 00:03:54.300 --> 00:03:56.400 trek through- 111 00:03:56.400 --> 00:03:58.701 A trek, yes! 112 00:03:58.701 --> 00:04:00.834 A male establishment, right? 113 00:04:00.834 --> 00:04:03.167 What did you learn about power? 114 00:04:03.167 --> 00:04:05.467 What I learned about power is that it's perceived. 115 00:04:05.467 --> 00:04:08.133 It's only perceived. 116 00:04:08.133 --> 00:04:10.400 It doesn't exist, because there's always someone above you 117 00:04:10.400 --> 00:04:12.367 who has more power than you do. 118 00:04:12.367 --> 00:04:14.100 What I finally realized, when I lost my job 119 00:04:14.100 --> 00:04:15.834 while I was in labor- 120 00:04:15.834 --> 00:04:17.467 Tell that story. 121 00:04:17.467 --> 00:04:18.934 I mean, it's extraordinary. 122 00:04:18.934 --> 00:04:20.234 By this time, Eisner's gone. 123 00:04:20.234 --> 00:04:21.501 Everyone's gone. 124 00:04:21.501 --> 00:04:22.968 They're all gone. 125 00:04:22.968 --> 00:04:24.167 They're all gone. 126 00:04:24.167 --> 00:04:25.734 Diller's gone, Eisner's gone. 127 00:04:25.734 --> 00:04:27.400 Everybody. 128 00:04:27.400 --> 00:04:29.300 Because Marty Davis who then came in- 129 00:04:29.300 --> 00:04:30.968 Marty Davis decided that -- Diller's 130 00:04:30.968 --> 00:04:32.667 relationship, as I am sure you know, was with a man called 131 00:04:32.667 --> 00:04:34.167 Charlie Bluhdorn, who was the founder of Gulf and Western. 132 00:04:34.167 --> 00:04:35.567 Who died at a young age. 133 00:04:35.567 --> 00:04:37.000 He put the conglomerate together and bought all these companies. 134 00:04:37.000 --> 00:04:38.434 Yes, he did. Right. 135 00:04:38.434 --> 00:04:39.734 Yeah. 136 00:04:39.734 --> 00:04:41.067 Barry Diller and Martin Davis had a 137 00:04:41.067 --> 00:04:42.467 difference of opinion. 138 00:04:42.467 --> 00:04:44.234 Over what? 139 00:04:44.234 --> 00:04:46.300 Many differences of opinion, probably. 140 00:04:46.300 --> 00:04:48.601 I don't know. I don't know. 141 00:04:48.601 --> 00:04:50.834 I was certainly not in those rooms in those days. 142 00:04:50.834 --> 00:04:53.000 I wasn't even on the floor where they were. 143 00:04:53.000 --> 00:04:54.901 But you were part of the gossip and you 144 00:04:54.901 --> 00:04:56.434 understood what was being said. 145 00:04:56.434 --> 00:04:58.300 One of the things you clearly did is kept 146 00:04:58.300 --> 00:04:59.934 your ear to the ground. 147 00:04:59.934 --> 00:05:01.467 Absolutely. Absolutely. 148 00:05:01.467 --> 00:05:02.834 Look, what Diller wanted was Paramount, and maybe he'll get 149 00:05:02.834 --> 00:05:04.100 it now. 150 00:05:04.100 --> 00:05:05.968 Do you think he will? 151 00:05:05.968 --> 00:05:08.100 I hope he does. 152 00:05:08.100 --> 00:05:10.567 Why? 153 00:05:10.567 --> 00:05:13.400 Because I think that it is -- I thought that the 154 00:05:13.400 --> 00:05:16.133 comment somebody made that this Paramount-Viacom merger was 155 00:05:16.133 --> 00:05:19.067 destiny, it may be more destiny for Barry, because he had been 156 00:05:19.067 --> 00:05:21.501 there for ten or 11 years, you know, and truly felt passionate 157 00:05:21.501 --> 00:05:23.601 about Paramount Pictures and its growth and the movies and 158 00:05:23.601 --> 00:05:26.167 product that it made. Back to- 159 00:05:26.167 --> 00:05:28.767 No, stay with Diller for a second. 160 00:05:28.767 --> 00:05:31.334 Okay. 161 00:05:31.334 --> 00:05:33.901 Do you think that Barry, who 162 00:05:33.901 --> 00:05:36.467 then went on to Fox, 163 00:05:36.467 --> 00:05:39.901 and then, left Fox because he wanted to be an owner and got 164 00:05:39.901 --> 00:05:43.334 significant interest in QVC, and now, QVC is making a bid for 165 00:05:43.334 --> 00:05:46.234 Paramount after Viacom made their offer, do you think that 166 00:05:46.234 --> 00:05:48.734 Barry is the kind of guy that lived with a sense of wanting 167 00:05:48.734 --> 00:05:51.534 Paramount, that's always been playing the back of his head and 168 00:05:51.534 --> 00:05:54.400 it may even be -- 169 00:05:54.400 --> 00:05:57.033 I can't tell you he said that. 170 00:05:57.033 --> 00:05:59.534 He certainly hasn't articulated that to me, but I think that he 171 00:05:59.534 --> 00:06:01.901 may view Paramount as unfinished business for him, that it 172 00:06:01.901 --> 00:06:04.167 was a dream. 173 00:06:04.167 --> 00:06:06.234 It's still one of only five or six majors. 174 00:06:06.234 --> 00:06:08.968 There aren't many of them. 175 00:06:08.968 --> 00:06:11.467 There never have been many of them. 176 00:06:11.467 --> 00:06:13.634 There may never be because it's such an expensive proposition to 177 00:06:13.634 --> 00:06:15.734 start one, and the likelihood of starting a new studio is 178 00:06:15.734 --> 00:06:17.767 completely remote. 179 00:06:17.767 --> 00:06:20.133 What about this guy, Marty Davis? 180 00:06:20.133 --> 00:06:22.467 What about him? 181 00:06:22.467 --> 00:06:24.667 Well, what kind of person is he? 182 00:06:24.667 --> 00:06:27.100 He's the one who had the conflict with Diller, Diller 183 00:06:27.100 --> 00:06:29.667 left, and then -- 184 00:06:29.667 --> 00:06:32.501 Right. Listen, I think that Marty Davis 185 00:06:32.501 --> 00:06:35.434 could have kept Diller. 186 00:06:35.434 --> 00:06:38.200 I think that he had another agenda. 187 00:06:38.200 --> 00:06:41.000 I think he could have kept Michael Eisner, he had another 188 00:06:41.000 --> 00:06:43.634 agenda, but you have to look at what Marty Davis did. 189 00:06:43.634 --> 00:06:46.300 He took a very unwieldy corporation that the stock 190 00:06:46.300 --> 00:06:48.968 market was sort of disenamored of, and he turned it into an 191 00:06:48.968 --> 00:06:51.200 entertainment conglomerate. 192 00:06:51.200 --> 00:06:53.234 It used to own copper mines and sugarcane fields and things, 193 00:06:53.234 --> 00:06:55.000 and he focused it, and he made it one of the darlings 194 00:06:55.000 --> 00:06:56.701 of Wall Street. 195 00:06:56.701 --> 00:06:58.868 He's sitting on a bunch of cash, 196 00:06:58.868 --> 00:07:01.467 over a billion dollars. 197 00:07:01.467 --> 00:07:04.601 He's sitting on so much it's mindboggling, so I 198 00:07:04.601 --> 00:07:07.367 think that Martin Davis did an extraordinary job in terms of 199 00:07:07.367 --> 00:07:10.634 focusing on what he wanted to do. 200 00:07:10.634 --> 00:07:13.634 How can Diller not want this plum? 201 00:07:13.634 --> 00:07:16.367 It's the only one left. 202 00:07:16.367 --> 00:07:18.901 It is the only privately-owned entertainment entity left. 203 00:07:18.901 --> 00:07:21.133 What's interesting about this thing, we're going 204 00:07:21.133 --> 00:07:23.100 to talk about this later and I hope you'll participate in 205 00:07:23.100 --> 00:07:25.234 that conversation, is the notion that he may not be the 206 00:07:25.234 --> 00:07:27.367 only one that wants it as well. 207 00:07:27.367 --> 00:07:29.100 Yes, that's true. 208 00:07:29.100 --> 00:07:30.834 Turner may want it and someone 209 00:07:30.834 --> 00:07:32.567 else unbeknown, but 210 00:07:32.567 --> 00:07:34.300 Diller clearly has the resources behind him with John Malone of 211 00:07:34.300 --> 00:07:36.033 TCI and Comcast and those people. 212 00:07:36.033 --> 00:07:37.934 I hear Bertelsmann is in there, and 213 00:07:37.934 --> 00:07:39.934 I hear that there- 214 00:07:39.934 --> 00:07:41.734 European- 215 00:07:41.734 --> 00:07:43.367 -are telephone companies- 216 00:07:43.367 --> 00:07:45.033 ATT&T -- 217 00:07:45.033 --> 00:07:46.701 -are in there, well, certainly. 218 00:07:46.701 --> 00:07:48.334 -- so we may have this giant battle, and guess 219 00:07:48.334 --> 00:07:50.000 who's going to benefit, the stockholders and Paramount. 220 00:07:50.000 --> 00:07:52.200 Yes, and, boy, aren't I sorry I don't have any. 221 00:07:52.200 --> 00:07:54.133 All right, come back to you for a second. 222 00:07:54.133 --> 00:07:55.901 You're in labor? 223 00:07:55.901 --> 00:07:58.267 Labor. I was in- 224 00:07:58.267 --> 00:08:00.901 Your beautiful daughter Rebecca is 225 00:08:00.901 --> 00:08:03.567 being born at this time. 226 00:08:03.567 --> 00:08:06.200 Yes, she is being born and she's having a really 227 00:08:06.200 --> 00:08:08.701 hard time being born. 228 00:08:08.701 --> 00:08:11.133 I have to tell you that it was a difficult day, if you will. 229 00:08:11.133 --> 00:08:13.534 After a 17 or 18 hours of labor and an emergency C-section, I 230 00:08:13.534 --> 00:08:15.834 was relieved. 231 00:08:15.834 --> 00:08:18.067 I had this healthy child in my arms, I was healthy. 232 00:08:18.067 --> 00:08:20.400 My husband went out for a minute and came back and his face 233 00:08:20.400 --> 00:08:22.734 was white. 234 00:08:22.734 --> 00:08:25.200 He was carrying the trade papers, Variety, and on the 235 00:08:25.200 --> 00:08:27.667 front page of Variety it basically said that I had lost 236 00:08:27.667 --> 00:08:29.767 my job while I was in labor. 237 00:08:29.767 --> 00:08:31.567 What had happened was I had not been getting along with the man 238 00:08:31.567 --> 00:08:33.200 who had become my boss after Barry and 239 00:08:33.200 --> 00:08:34.667 Michael Eisner left. 240 00:08:34.667 --> 00:08:36.000 His name was? 241 00:08:36.000 --> 00:08:37.267 Ned Tanen. 242 00:08:37.267 --> 00:08:38.400 I'm a friend of his -- 243 00:08:38.400 --> 00:08:39.501 A man you had dated. 244 00:08:39.501 --> 00:08:40.701 I had dated. I had dated. 245 00:08:40.701 --> 00:08:42.133 Date, just date. 246 00:08:42.133 --> 00:08:43.601 Not, you know. 247 00:08:43.601 --> 00:08:45.000 Not slept your way to the top, as we say. 248 00:08:45.000 --> 00:08:46.501 Or the middle, and even in that case, no. 249 00:08:46.501 --> 00:08:47.901 Or the middle, okay, but you have to make the 250 00:08:47.901 --> 00:08:49.167 point that nobody sleeps their way to the top -- 251 00:08:49.167 --> 00:08:50.334 Not ever. 252 00:08:50.334 --> 00:08:51.501 -- or sleep your way to the middle. 253 00:08:51.501 --> 00:08:52.634 At best, right. 254 00:08:52.634 --> 00:08:54.000 They basically say you're out. 255 00:08:54.000 --> 00:08:55.567 Right. 256 00:08:55.567 --> 00:08:57.267 You're out and what - 257 00:08:57.267 --> 00:08:59.300 I think what they basically said 258 00:08:59.300 --> 00:09:01.167 was that there was someone else they 259 00:09:01.167 --> 00:09:03.000 brought in over me, and it was very typical way of Hollywood 260 00:09:03.000 --> 00:09:04.567 saying, "We don't want you here" without saying you're fired. 261 00:09:04.567 --> 00:09:06.467 After all, I was in labor. 262 00:09:06.467 --> 00:09:08.167 Guess what movies you'd already made for them. 263 00:09:08.167 --> 00:09:09.767 Gee -- 264 00:09:09.767 --> 00:09:11.734 The Accused, Untouchables, Flashdance -- 265 00:09:11.734 --> 00:09:13.801 Fatal Attraction. 266 00:09:13.801 --> 00:09:16.133 - Fatal Attraction, so you've done well. 267 00:09:16.133 --> 00:09:18.200 I did well. 268 00:09:18.200 --> 00:09:20.067 You knew how to spot a project and nourish it 269 00:09:20.067 --> 00:09:21.734 along that long process, from the beginning to the end. 270 00:09:21.734 --> 00:09:23.167 What do you do then? 271 00:09:23.167 --> 00:09:24.501 What do I do when -- 272 00:09:24.501 --> 00:09:26.000 You're out. 273 00:09:26.000 --> 00:09:27.400 You mean after I'm out? 274 00:09:27.400 --> 00:09:28.801 Exactly. 275 00:09:28.801 --> 00:09:30.167 I took risks, I took advantage of it, and I spent 276 00:09:30.167 --> 00:09:31.567 four or five months with Rebecca which I 277 00:09:31.567 --> 00:09:32.934 hadn't planned on doing. 278 00:09:32.934 --> 00:09:34.534 I thought I was just going to have to go right back to work. 279 00:09:34.534 --> 00:09:36.200 You have a bonding then. 280 00:09:36.200 --> 00:09:38.167 A, it was complete joy. 281 00:09:38.167 --> 00:09:40.133 I had a lot of bonding. 282 00:09:40.133 --> 00:09:41.901 Then, what happened is it allowed me to be free enough so 283 00:09:41.901 --> 00:09:43.601 that Victor Kaufman, who was head of Columbia Pictures at the 284 00:09:43.601 --> 00:09:45.200 time, offered me the job to run Columbia. 285 00:09:45.200 --> 00:09:46.801 You took it. 286 00:09:46.801 --> 00:09:48.734 I took it. I took it. 287 00:09:48.734 --> 00:09:50.567 How long were you there? 288 00:09:50.567 --> 00:09:52.234 I was there for two and a half years. 289 00:09:52.234 --> 00:09:53.767 How did you get this reputation of being mean? 290 00:09:53.767 --> 00:09:55.200 You mean the Queen of Mean, huh? 291 00:09:55.200 --> 00:09:56.501 The Queen of Mean was the cover story of 292 00:09:56.501 --> 00:09:57.734 California Magazine, right? 293 00:09:57.734 --> 00:09:58.968 Yes, dubious distinction. 294 00:09:58.968 --> 00:10:00.167 The Queen of Mean fires of her 295 00:10:00.167 --> 00:10:01.300 secretaries, all this. 296 00:10:01.300 --> 00:10:02.367 Geez, I guess that never happens to men, huh? 297 00:10:02.367 --> 00:10:03.400 Runs through secretaries like water. 298 00:10:03.400 --> 00:10:04.834 Never happens to men, right? 299 00:10:04.834 --> 00:10:06.200 Exactly. That's my point. 300 00:10:06.200 --> 00:10:08.234 That's the question. 301 00:10:08.234 --> 00:10:10.467 Why was it you that was singled out? 302 00:10:10.467 --> 00:10:13.167 Men do this all the time. 303 00:10:13.167 --> 00:10:15.667 Well, I think this is the thing. 304 00:10:15.667 --> 00:10:18.067 Women get looked at through a different microscope maybe than 305 00:10:18.067 --> 00:10:20.334 men do in terms of how they run their corporations, not that 306 00:10:20.334 --> 00:10:22.567 there are very many of them. 307 00:10:22.567 --> 00:10:24.734 I think it's something that we're just going to have to get 308 00:10:24.734 --> 00:10:26.734 used to until it gets better. 309 00:10:26.734 --> 00:10:28.868 Yes, I fired some secretaries. 310 00:10:28.868 --> 00:10:30.701 Yes, I had some really great secretaries. 311 00:10:30.701 --> 00:10:32.567 Yes, I'm a tough manager. 312 00:10:32.567 --> 00:10:34.834 I had to run a motion picture studio. 313 00:10:34.834 --> 00:10:36.801 I had a job to do. 314 00:10:36.801 --> 00:10:38.667 I think it's unfortunate that women are looked at through a 315 00:10:38.667 --> 00:10:40.501 different microscope than men, but I'll have to hope that it's 316 00:10:40.501 --> 00:10:42.200 going to change. 317 00:10:42.200 --> 00:10:44.033 Why did you leave Columbia? 318 00:10:44.033 --> 00:10:46.467 I left Columbia finally because, first of all, 319 00:10:46.467 --> 00:10:48.534 Sony bought Columbia. 320 00:10:48.534 --> 00:10:50.801 What I had come to realize over that two-and-a-half years was 321 00:10:50.801 --> 00:10:53.234 that I did not want to be an administrative person anymore. 322 00:10:53.234 --> 00:10:55.567 I didn't want to be a manager. 323 00:10:55.567 --> 00:10:57.734 That the part of the business that I loved was what Diller 324 00:10:57.734 --> 00:11:00.033 talks about, was the passion side of it, the actual making of 325 00:11:00.033 --> 00:11:02.567 the movies, and so, I left to produce. 326 00:11:02.567 --> 00:11:05.234 This was you say about Barry Diller. 327 00:11:05.234 --> 00:11:07.734 "From Barry Diller I learned that you can always do better a 328 00:11:07.734 --> 00:11:10.133 proposition that has pros and cons for me, and reinforced in a 329 00:11:10.133 --> 00:11:12.400 negative way the whole perfectionist obsession I had, 330 00:11:12.400 --> 00:11:14.367 but it also pushed me to where I never could have gone. 331 00:11:14.367 --> 00:11:16.334 He was clearly a brilliant and visionary man. 332 00:11:16.334 --> 00:11:18.367 As head of ABC program, he invented both the Movie of the 333 00:11:18.367 --> 00:11:20.767 Week and Discoveries. 334 00:11:20.767 --> 00:11:23.834 In the flesh, he was power incarnate. 335 00:11:23.834 --> 00:11:26.400 He was the sexiest man I ever met." 336 00:11:26.400 --> 00:11:28.968 He loved that line he said. 337 00:11:28.968 --> 00:11:31.300 I'll tell you exactly it should be a very happy Barry 338 00:11:31.300 --> 00:11:33.667 and I think he is. 339 00:11:33.667 --> 00:11:36.000 Because you like men who exude power, 340 00:11:36.000 --> 00:11:38.567 who exude a sense of command. 341 00:11:38.567 --> 00:11:40.968 You know something, a command of himself. 342 00:11:40.968 --> 00:11:43.367 There are very powerful men that I don't find attractive. 343 00:11:43.367 --> 00:11:45.734 He just happened to be -- he was so in control of himself and 344 00:11:45.734 --> 00:11:48.267 what he wanted. 345 00:11:48.267 --> 00:11:50.834 He had a vision and he went after it, and I thought it was 346 00:11:50.834 --> 00:11:53.067 incredibly attractive. 347 00:11:53.067 --> 00:11:55.033 You went into independent production. 348 00:11:55.033 --> 00:11:56.767 First you went to Disney and you parked there for a while. 349 00:11:56.767 --> 00:11:58.501 Right, parked there. 350 00:11:58.501 --> 00:12:00.467 I'm still parked there. 351 00:12:00.467 --> 00:12:02.467 Yeah, but you don't really - I mean that 352 00:12:02.467 --> 00:12:04.434 deal is over, isn't it? 353 00:12:04.434 --> 00:12:06.601 Well, it's over in terms of the fact that I'm not 354 00:12:06.601 --> 00:12:08.834 exclusive anymore there, but it's not over in terms of the 355 00:12:08.834 --> 00:12:11.767 fact that I'm making movies there. 356 00:12:11.767 --> 00:12:14.367 Cool Runnings is a Disney movie, the next two are Disney movies, 357 00:12:14.367 --> 00:12:16.801 so it just allowed me to spread my wings a little bit. 358 00:12:16.801 --> 00:12:18.968 Barry Diller gets control of Paramount. 359 00:12:18.968 --> 00:12:21.300 God, are you obsessed with Diller or what? 360 00:12:21.300 --> 00:12:23.434 No, no. No, let me finish 361 00:12:23.434 --> 00:12:25.267 I'm not obsessed with Diller. 362 00:12:25.267 --> 00:12:27.100 Barry Diller gets control of - I happen to like him and we did 363 00:12:27.100 --> 00:12:28.934 a program here with him and you felt -- 364 00:12:28.934 --> 00:12:30.767 I felt, I saw it, yes. 365 00:12:30.767 --> 00:12:32.601 - some of the qualities that 366 00:12:32.601 --> 00:12:34.434 you're talking about. 367 00:12:34.434 --> 00:12:36.868 If he gets control of Paramount and says, "Come back to work for 368 00:12:36.868 --> 00:12:38.901 Paramount as an executive," would you do that, or do you - 369 00:12:38.901 --> 00:12:40.701 Ugh. This is - would I - 370 00:12:40.701 --> 00:12:42.267 Been thinking about this, 371 00:12:42.267 --> 00:12:44.067 haven't we, Ms. Steel? 372 00:12:44.067 --> 00:12:45.934 No. 373 00:12:45.934 --> 00:12:47.567 Been thinking about this. 374 00:12:47.567 --> 00:12:49.000 I wouldn't be stuttering through this if I had 375 00:12:49.000 --> 00:12:50.267 thought about it. 376 00:12:50.267 --> 00:12:51.434 I would have had an answer ready for you. 377 00:12:51.434 --> 00:12:52.601 This is the thing. 378 00:12:52.601 --> 00:12:54.033 There are only two - 379 00:12:54.033 --> 00:12:55.834 There's only two people 380 00:12:55.834 --> 00:12:57.567 you'd work for and he's one of them and yes is the answer. 381 00:12:57.567 --> 00:12:59.067 No, the answer is not yes, but he's one of them, 382 00:12:59.067 --> 00:13:01.067 but the answer is not yet, yes. 383 00:13:01.067 --> 00:13:02.801 I don't want to do that job - 384 00:13:02.801 --> 00:13:04.501 Boy, you're articulate. 385 00:13:04.501 --> 00:13:06.133 Thanks. Gee, I do that really well. 386 00:13:06.133 --> 00:13:07.667 You did it. 387 00:13:07.667 --> 00:13:09.000 Can we stop (indiscernible)? 388 00:13:09.000 --> 00:13:10.300 Rebecca, you can be proud of your mom. 389 00:13:10.300 --> 00:13:11.534 Exactly, because I talk really well to her. 390 00:13:11.534 --> 00:13:12.934 She's really quick on her feet. 391 00:13:12.934 --> 00:13:14.601 Yes, thank you. 392 00:13:14.601 --> 00:13:16.300 She probably understood - 393 00:13:16.300 --> 00:13:17.834 I'm used to a six-year-old. 394 00:13:17.834 --> 00:13:19.167 Well, you're not far away with me, kid. 395 00:13:19.167 --> 00:13:20.367 Thank you. Correct. 396 00:13:20.367 --> 00:13:21.567 Three. 397 00:13:21.567 --> 00:13:23.701 No more stuttering, no more stuttering. 398 00:13:23.701 --> 00:13:25.567 Oh, yeah? 399 00:13:25.567 --> 00:13:27.167 Yeah, about three. 400 00:13:27.167 --> 00:13:28.734 The idea of being able to have a hands on as a producer, that's 401 00:13:28.734 --> 00:13:30.100 attractive to you. 402 00:13:30.100 --> 00:13:31.634 It's so much more. 403 00:13:31.634 --> 00:13:32.868 If this thing wasn't in the air, 404 00:13:32.868 --> 00:13:34.200 you would be attracted. 405 00:13:34.200 --> 00:13:35.601 You know what, I'm not saying I am - 406 00:13:35.601 --> 00:13:37.234 No. 407 00:13:37.234 --> 00:13:38.734 It only came up yesterday so the fact of the 408 00:13:38.734 --> 00:13:40.067 matter is I love what I'm doing. 409 00:13:40.067 --> 00:13:41.334 Finally, for the first time, I have found a job that I 410 00:13:41.334 --> 00:13:42.901 absolutely love. 411 00:13:42.901 --> 00:13:44.434 Being an independent producer. 412 00:13:44.434 --> 00:13:46.367 Absolutely. 413 00:13:46.367 --> 00:13:48.300 I didn't realize that you could love your job. 414 00:13:48.300 --> 00:13:50.267 Yeah, but can you do it? 415 00:13:50.267 --> 00:13:52.234 Can you make by yourself good movies? 416 00:13:52.234 --> 00:13:53.968 I hope so. Call me after you see Cool Runnings. 417 00:13:53.968 --> 00:13:55.567 That's the test, isn't it? 418 00:13:55.567 --> 00:13:56.968 It's my test. 419 00:13:56.968 --> 00:13:58.567 Because it's one thing to be a head of studio. 420 00:13:58.567 --> 00:14:00.501 See, I would hate that because all you do is go to meetings and 421 00:14:00.501 --> 00:14:02.501 marketing and business and finance -- 422 00:14:02.501 --> 00:14:04.534 Meetings. 423 00:14:04.534 --> 00:14:06.267 Then, people call you and they hate their parking spot and this 424 00:14:06.267 --> 00:14:08.567 is what you spend an hour on, so I don't want to do it anymore. 425 00:14:08.567 --> 00:14:10.801 This is what you said about Jeffrey Katzenberg 426 00:14:10.801 --> 00:14:12.968 over at Disney. 427 00:14:12.968 --> 00:14:15.100 This is an interesting look at people. 428 00:14:15.100 --> 00:14:17.200 "I learned what I call the Jeffrey Katzenberg theory of 429 00:14:17.200 --> 00:14:19.267 getting things done. 430 00:14:19.267 --> 00:14:21.334 If they throw you out the front door, you go in the backdoor. 431 00:14:21.334 --> 00:14:23.567 If they throw you out the backdoor, you go in the window. 432 00:14:23.567 --> 00:14:25.567 And if they throw you out the window, you go in the basement, 433 00:14:25.567 --> 00:14:27.567 and you don't take it personally." Katzenberg said to 434 00:14:27.567 --> 00:14:29.033 you when all the crap was coming down on your head, he said, 435 00:14:29.033 --> 00:14:30.434 "It's not about you personally. 436 00:14:30.434 --> 00:14:31.667 Don't take it personally." 437 00:14:31.667 --> 00:14:32.767 Yes, he did. He did. 438 00:14:32.767 --> 00:14:33.801 That was a tough lesson for you to learn because 439 00:14:33.801 --> 00:14:35.067 It still is. 440 00:14:35.067 --> 00:14:36.667 It is. 441 00:14:36.667 --> 00:14:38.200 Yes, it's very tough. 442 00:14:38.200 --> 00:14:40.167 Not the lesson about going in the doors and out of thing and I 443 00:14:40.167 --> 00:14:42.334 can do all that, but this whole lesson of not taking it 444 00:14:42.334 --> 00:14:44.567 personally is very difficult. 445 00:14:44.567 --> 00:14:46.634 I'm much better at it, but I'm not great at it. 446 00:14:46.634 --> 00:14:48.701 What do you want women, specifically, to learn 447 00:14:48.701 --> 00:14:50.767 from this book, from your experience? 448 00:14:50.767 --> 00:14:52.834 I want them to learn two things - 449 00:14:52.834 --> 00:14:54.901 I wrote this book 450 00:14:54.901 --> 00:14:57.200 because there was no book for me, when I was coming up that 451 00:14:57.200 --> 00:14:59.734 ladder, and that there were all these books like Iacocca and 452 00:14:59.734 --> 00:15:02.133 Trump and all these books about how to succeed in business by 453 00:15:02.133 --> 00:15:04.167 men and that there didn't seem to be one done by a woman. 454 00:15:04.167 --> 00:15:06.234 I hope that they will get from this, if I can do this, anybody 455 00:15:06.234 --> 00:15:08.300 can do this. 456 00:15:08.300 --> 00:15:10.334 That I started out with nothing, I came from a 457 00:15:10.334 --> 00:15:15.534 family that had no money. 458 00:15:15.534 --> 00:15:18.167 I didn't finish college, I went to LA without knowing anybody. 459 00:15:18.167 --> 00:15:20.634 I have many careers and jobs before that, none of which 460 00:15:20.634 --> 00:15:22.968 hooked, but the major lesson was that perseverance for me is 461 00:15:22.968 --> 00:15:25.000 what finally paid off. 462 00:15:25.000 --> 00:15:26.734 It's what's interesting about this, you had 463 00:15:26.734 --> 00:15:28.467 affairs with Richard Gere - 464 00:15:28.467 --> 00:15:30.200 Gee, I was wondering how long it would 465 00:15:30.200 --> 00:15:31.734 take you to get to that, Charlie. 466 00:15:31.734 --> 00:15:33.501 I have a purpose in getting to this, Richard 467 00:15:33.501 --> 00:15:35.334 Gere, nice-looking guy. 468 00:15:35.334 --> 00:15:37.100 He's a hunk. 469 00:15:37.100 --> 00:15:38.601 Is he? 470 00:15:38.601 --> 00:15:39.934 I mean he got, you know, 471 00:15:39.934 --> 00:15:41.133 (indiscernible) very handsome. 472 00:15:41.133 --> 00:15:42.634 It wasn't hard, was it? 473 00:15:42.634 --> 00:15:44.133 Wasn't hard. 474 00:15:44.133 --> 00:15:45.801 No, it was not hard. No. 475 00:15:45.801 --> 00:15:47.400 Richard Dreyfuss? 476 00:15:47.400 --> 00:15:48.801 That's not in the book, Charlie. 477 00:15:48.801 --> 00:15:50.200 It's somewhere I read it though. 478 00:15:50.200 --> 00:15:51.501 Well, do you believe everything you read? 479 00:15:51.501 --> 00:15:52.801 No, of course not. 480 00:15:52.801 --> 00:15:54.100 Thank you. 481 00:15:54.100 --> 00:15:55.367 Did you have an affair with Richard Dreyfuss? 482 00:15:55.367 --> 00:15:57.133 Richard Dreyfuss is a very good friend of mine. 483 00:15:57.133 --> 00:15:58.801 I just did a program with him. 484 00:15:58.801 --> 00:16:00.267 He's really special. 485 00:16:00.267 --> 00:16:01.701 Finally, there was Martin Scorsese, maybe the 486 00:16:01.701 --> 00:16:03.834 best director in America. Maybe. 487 00:16:03.834 --> 00:16:05.734 The world, maybe. 488 00:16:05.734 --> 00:16:08.033 The world, maybe. 489 00:16:08.033 --> 00:16:10.000 What's fascinating is his love of movies and through him, you 490 00:16:10.000 --> 00:16:11.701 developed some sense of what - 491 00:16:11.701 --> 00:16:13.801 Finally, yes. I finally felt like I could see - 492 00:16:13.801 --> 00:16:16.200 See, my motives were pure in trying to 493 00:16:16.200 --> 00:16:19.000 talk about your affairs. 494 00:16:19.000 --> 00:16:21.868 You're absolutely right. Thank you. 495 00:16:21.868 --> 00:16:24.734 You got to a place where I'm not going to stutter. 496 00:16:24.734 --> 00:16:27.400 Certainly for me, it opened up a whole world that I have never 497 00:16:27.400 --> 00:16:30.000 seen before, which is what really goes on behind the 498 00:16:30.000 --> 00:16:33.067 camera, the difficulty, the passion, the pain about not 499 00:16:33.067 --> 00:16:36.067 being able to do something, getting that image that you have 500 00:16:36.067 --> 00:16:38.534 stuck in your head out. 501 00:16:38.534 --> 00:16:40.634 He communicates through images. 502 00:16:40.634 --> 00:16:42.400 He doesn't communicate like you and I do in conversation. 503 00:16:42.400 --> 00:16:44.467 Not that he can't. 504 00:16:44.467 --> 00:16:46.000 Extraordinary. 505 00:16:46.000 --> 00:16:47.667 He was extraordinary. 506 00:16:47.667 --> 00:16:49.167 Everybody is raving about the new film. 507 00:16:49.167 --> 00:16:50.868 It's amazing, it's really special. 508 00:16:50.868 --> 00:16:52.501 Dawn Steel, They Can Kill You, 509 00:16:52.501 --> 00:16:54.367 But They Can't Eat You. 510 00:16:54.367 --> 00:16:56.033 You want to ask me what that means? 511 00:16:56.033 --> 00:16:57.501 Yeah, what does that mean? 512 00:16:57.501 --> 00:16:59.033 It means coming out of labor, losing one's job, 513 00:16:59.033 --> 00:17:00.467 I'm still here. 514 00:17:00.467 --> 00:17:02.067 Exactly. 515 00:17:02.067 --> 00:17:03.868 They killed me, but I still have my soul intact. 516 00:17:03.868 --> 00:17:05.467 You bet. 517 00:17:05.467 --> 00:17:07.367 At the same time, you don't take such cheap shots that you can, 518 00:17:07.367 --> 00:17:09.334 as they say, go back. 519 00:17:09.334 --> 00:17:11.033 That wasn't the point. 520 00:17:11.033 --> 00:17:12.534 No. The point was to provide a kind of 521 00:17:12.534 --> 00:17:14.534 primer for people who understanding one woman's experience. 522 00:17:14.534 --> 00:17:16.634 Exactly right. 523 00:17:16.634 --> 00:17:18.868 Okay. You're going to stay with us and 524 00:17:18.868 --> 00:17:21.167 we're going to talk about Paramount Communications. 525 00:17:21.167 --> 00:17:23.567 Dawn Steel will be joined by some journalists and talk about 526 00:17:23.567 --> 00:17:27.801 what's at stake here and an understanding of why this has 527 00:17:27.801 --> 00:17:31.634 become one of the big battles to be read and talked about in 528 00:17:31.634 --> 00:17:32.434 American business and American communications.