WEBVTT

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British U.N. Ambassador Calls U.S.

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a 'European Power'

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Serbian and ethnic Albanian representatives

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from Kosovo reached a conditional agreement today.

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Negotiators have been meeting for more than two weeks in

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France working to bring an end to violence in the region.

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They will be back for more talks on March 15th.

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Joining me now for a look at the most recent developments in

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Kosovo, Sir JEREMY GREENSTOCK.

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He is the British ambassador to the United Nations.

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I am please to have him here to talk about what has been taking

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place in France and what it means for the rest

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of the world. Welcome. Sir

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Thank you very much, Charlie.

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I know you've been preoccupied with other

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things, but give me a sense of where we are this evening as far

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as you know because you know that area and you know that

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conflict well. Sir

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I would say that we are at the end of phase

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one of what we've been trying to do on Kosovo.

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We would have liked to have done all the phases

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at once, but this

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is an old problem -- a grindingly tense and violent

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problem -- and we've done very well to get successfully to the

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end of phase one, which is to establish a political framework

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for the substantive autonomy of Kosovo.

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Do we make-- those who want to see some

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solution and want to see those Serbian troops out of there make

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a mistake to make a threat and offer a deadline if you're not

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gonna adhere to that deadline? Sir

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Well, we are adhering to a deadline. We

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have brought them to a conclusion within the two weeks

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that we said we were going to-- I mean, minus two days, but

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that's nothing in Balkan politics.

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Kosovo has been a pain in the Balkans since the 14th century.

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And we set ourselves two weeks to change the political

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temperature between Belgrade and Kosovo.

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And we've done that.

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Both sides have agreed to autonomy for Kosovo.

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When? Sir

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They are going to meet again on March, the

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15th, to talk about the

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implementation of this agreement.

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This is phase two coming up.

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The implementation will need both a civilian and a military

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text agreed to say how the courts will work, how the

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assembly will work, how the community police will work, how

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the Serb minority will be protected in Kosovo.

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And the military paper will say where the troops must withdraw

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to, what the NATO troops themselves will do to hold the ring

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while autonomy develops.

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Is this Madeleine Albright's deal? Sir

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This is a very strong American input, but

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it is a contact-group deal -- the United States, Russia,

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France, Germany, United Kingdom, Italy.

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It's a six-nation negotiation, and a six-nation deal.

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And, of course, we need the power of the

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United States. Yes.

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Is this a case where Milosevic

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simply backed down? Sir

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Well, he hasn't signed the paper yet.

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That's going to be in the implementation phase.

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So, Milosevic has now authorized his delegation to agree to the

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autonomy in Kosovo that he's withheld for 12 years, since he

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came in 1987-- and took away in 1989.

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So, he has changed his policy. Yes.

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He did not want NATO troops in Kosovo. Sir

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I think you can say he does not want NATO

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troops in Kosovo.

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Right. I mean, that would seem to be a huge

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sticking point for him. Sir

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Yes. And I think he hates the idea.

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He says, ''This is an internal problem.'' It's not an internal

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problem when you have to murder, raze villages, kill women and

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children to get your political wish fulfilled.

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It's an international problem.

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And he's had to come to understand that.

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So, there will have to be NATO troops on the ground.

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And, for this to implemented, there will be a NATO-led force

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with, perhaps, a wider group of countries.

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We would like Russia to be involved in this, as soon as the

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implementation phase sets in, yes.

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Will they? Sir

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I think they will. I think we're all

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determined to see this through.

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Yeltsin has not been-- I mean, I talked to

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Jacques Chirac on Friday about this.

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I mean, the Russians seem to

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be reticent. Sir

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They will accept an agreement that

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Milosevic subscribes to and an invitation that he subscribes to

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for NATO to policy this.

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What Yeltsin will not accept is that we actually use force to

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make Milosevic withdraw his troops and understand our

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political wishes.

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Going into the events of the last 24 hours, the

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problem was the Albanians. Sir

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The problem--

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They weren't getting what they want-- and here

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we were try-- Help me if I'm wrong.

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They weren't getting what they wanted.

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They weren't signing on.

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Milosevic, ready to sign on, and the Albanians

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weren't happy with

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the deal 'cause they wanted

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full autonomy. Sir

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Let's look at the two delegations that we

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were dealing with over the past two weeks.

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The Serb delegation was reasonably homogeneous, but on a

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string from Belgrade.

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The master was not there.

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The Albanian delegation, the Kosovo Albanian delegation, had

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a lot of important political people there -- the oligarchy,

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if you like, for the Kosovo Albanians -- but they didn't

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agree fully amongst themselves.

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Right. Sir

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'Cause they've never done this sort of

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thing before.

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Milosevic has done it countless times.

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So, it's one

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versus many. Sir

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It's a very different characterization of

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the two delegations.

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The Albanians had to be brought to understand what they were

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signing up to, and they had to be brought to give up the idea

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of immediate independence for Kosovo.

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This is a deal for a interim period of three years, after

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which there will be a further decision.

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And they've come to it.

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It's good.

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This is-- It's good? Sir

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It's good.

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Is it gonna hold? Sir

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We're gonna make it hold.

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How are you gonna do that? Sir

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Well, with the arm-twisting that we've

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learned to use in the Balkans.

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I mean, look at Dayton.

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That was a very effective piece of arm-twisting.

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Bosnia has held with the Dayton Peace Agreement since 1995.

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We want to do the same thing in Kosovo.

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''Held'' in the sense that there's

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no warfare. Sir

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Well, that's a terrific achievement.

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Yeah, I agree. But I'm just wanting to

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understand what ''held'' means. Sir

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We have a single country, which is

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recognized-- that's Bosnia and Hercegovina, recognized in the

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United Nations.

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It may have a three-man presidency.

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It may be an extraordinary government, but it's held up --

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with, of course, the support of our civilians and military on

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the ground.

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But it's held.

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We want to do the same again in Kosovo.

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And you think this is the

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right path to do that? Sir

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I think this is the only path. I mean, the

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path designed itself.

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We were having to get away from the humanitarian disaster in

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Kosovo and the violence.

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And we had to produce what we could produce.

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What do you think was-- What

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was driving Milosevic

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in this crisis? Sir

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Two things -- the first thing is his own

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hold on power, which is very important to him; and secondly

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the need to keep Serbia together.

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Remember, in 1987, he came to power on the campaign to keep

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Kosovo Serb basically.

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And that meant, in the end, after two years of his

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administration, the downgrading of the rights of the Kosovo

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Albanian people.

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So, it's very important that Serbia should be held together.

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Kosovo is in the soul of the Serb people.

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It's a very important territory for them.

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But, as always with Milosevic, he wants to keep his own grip on

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his own political position.

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Explain to America what business this is of

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ours -- A -- and why it's in our national interest even to

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consider the use of American troops with the British, with

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the French. Sir

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The Balkans, and particularly Serbia, is

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perhaps the last place in west-central-- Eastern

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Europe even, where there is a Communist leftover, a

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totalitarian regime with a Communist mentality now at least

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10 years out of date after the collapse of the Soviet Union.

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It is dangerous.

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That regime is dangerous for the security of the whole area.

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If the Balkans flare up, you bring in Albania, you bring in

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Greece, you bring in Turkey, all sorts of things go wrong for

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members of NATO.

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Secondly, the United States is a European power.

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You don't just sit on your own continent.

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You are a global power.

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And you remain -- through NATO and your very good relationships

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throughout Europe, but particularly with Western Europe

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-- a European power.

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You are the only country that can project that sort of

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strength around the world.

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So, we need American power in Europe to settle the last

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questions of the rebuilding of Europe after the collapse of the

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Soviet Union.

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Can we say, then, the precedent

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from Kosovo is, if

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there's some problem in terms of a nation -- a conflict in terms

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of competing power interests -- if we think that it has a danger

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of affecting the world beyond its borders, we -- the United

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States, Great Britain, France -- may consider using NATO to

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enforce our will? Sir

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Yes, this has clearly been

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an American decision.

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And I think I understand it has the support of the majority of

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the American people.

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They like to see the United States government as a whole

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supporting the spread of democracy and

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the spread of peace.

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And it has the support of your

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government? Sir

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Absolutely.

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Doesn't have the support

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of the French government. Sir

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Oh, it does have the support

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of the French government.

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It does? Sir

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They may not be--

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They are signed on-- Sir

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They may not be-- I don't know what

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President Chirac said to you. I didn't-- I wasn't there.

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But the French recognize that on Bosnia we

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needed American power.

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Right, right. Sir

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They supported that. On Kosovo, which is

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next door and may affect Bosnia--

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Right. Sir

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--we need American power. They don't voice

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it in the way that the Brits voice it.

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I'm not so much-- speaking so much to Kosovo.

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I'm speaking to the idea of using

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The French recognize that NATO itself has a strength

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which needs to be used in these circumstances.

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So, they have been very supportive, throughout this

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negotiation in terms of the use of NATO to make

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sure that it works.

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But if you-- if you read a larger meaning out of

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this, do you think the French would go along?

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And the Russians?

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To use NATO as a means to encourage competing forces

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within a nation to come to

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an agreement? Sir

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There's a difference

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between France and Russia.

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Russia, no.

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Or not unless they are in circumstances where the Russians

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are completely involved in the negotiation.

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The French have an independent stance on a lot of this.

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They have an independent stance on NATO.

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They are not full militia members of-- political--

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military members of NATO.

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But they've come back a long way

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since DeGaulle. Sir

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Political, but not military. You know, they

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are acting now as though they understand that

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NATO has a utility which they can't do without.

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And they've been absolutely straightforward about that.

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Chirac is very good on this issue.

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He realizes that you need strength sometimes.

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And NATO provides that.

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I mean, this really is a broadening of the

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mandate for NATO. Sir

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Well, we did it in Bosnia.

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Of course. But I'm saying-- Sir

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So, we'd already done it.

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First, Bosnia; now, Kosovo.

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And we don't know where tomorrow. Sir

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Well, a limited amount of tasks, please.

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But we can't do too many of these.

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But it's right next to the NATO area.

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NATO is responsible now, in a sense, for peace and

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security in Europe.

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And, if it's useful to use it and the parties -- particularly

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if the parties accept that it should be used -- then that's

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really good.

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And they did in Bosnia.

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You're optimistic about

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Kosovo, though? Sir

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I mean, we've achieved something here,

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Charlie, which we didn't think we were going to achieve.

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Plenty can go wrong.

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These are vicious people.

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They hate each other on the ground.

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But we have successfully put momentum into

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autonomy for Kosovo.

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And we're jolly well going to

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make it work. Yes.

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Thank you for coming. Sir

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Thank you.

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We'll be right back. Stay with us.

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Presidential Speechwriter Describes Writing Process

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We want to talk this evening about speechwriting

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-- speechwriting for the president of the United States.

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00:12:39.467 --> 00:12:42.067
There is a special challenge to writing a State of the Union

303
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Address for a president who is in the midst of an

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impeachment trial.

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00:12:47.667 --> 00:12:50.267
And it takes a special skill to come up with a speech that cuts

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through the controversy and raises approval ratings.

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Here is what the president said at his State of the Union in

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January of 1999. Pres.

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I propose that we commit 60

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percent of the budget

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00:13:02.734 --> 00:13:05.834
surplus for the next 15 years to Social Security, investing a

312
00:13:05.834 --> 00:13:08.968
small portion in the private sector, just as any private or

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state government pension would do.

314
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This will earn a higher return and keep Social Security sound

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00:13:15.467 --> 00:13:18.534
for 55 years.

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00:13:18.534 --> 00:13:21.634
While the president takes the advice of

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00:13:21.634 --> 00:13:24.467
many people in drafting his speeches, there is one person

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00:13:24.467 --> 00:13:27.133
who is largely credited with pulling it all together.

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00:13:27.133 --> 00:13:29.734
MICHAEL WALDMAN is the director of speechwriting

320
00:13:29.734 --> 00:13:32.300
for the White House.

321
00:13:32.300 --> 00:13:34.767
He joins me now for a conversation about the craft of

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00:13:34.767 --> 00:13:37.100
speechwriting and his role in the Clinton administration.

323
00:13:37.100 --> 00:13:39.501
Before we turn to Michael, here is another excerpt from a

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00:13:39.501 --> 00:13:42.033
Clinton speech at the Council on Foreign Relations

325
00:13:42.033 --> 00:13:44.534
in New York. Pres.

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Today the low and stable inflation we enjoy has

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been critical to our economic health.

328
00:13:50.067 --> 00:13:53.367
And low inflation has also contributed to that of many

329
00:13:53.367 --> 00:13:57.167
other nations as well.

330
00:13:57.167 --> 00:14:00.834
But clearly the balance of risks has now shifted with a

331
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full quarter of the world's population living in countries

332
00:14:04.334 --> 00:14:07.367
with declining economic growth, or negative economic growth.

333
00:14:07.367 --> 00:14:09.934
Therefore, I believe the industrial world's chief

334
00:14:09.934 --> 00:14:12.334
priority today plainly is to spur growth.

335
00:14:12.334 --> 00:14:14.934
MICHAEL WALDMAN is the director of speechwriting

336
00:14:14.934 --> 00:14:17.033
for the White House.

337
00:14:17.033 --> 00:14:19.133
He joins me now for a conversation about the craft of

338
00:14:19.133 --> 00:14:20.934
speechwriting, his role in the Clinton

339
00:14:20.934 --> 00:14:22.834
administration and other matters.

340
00:14:22.834 --> 00:14:24.501
And I am pleased to have him on

341
00:14:24.501 --> 00:14:26.267
this program. Welcome.

342
00:14:26.267 --> 00:14:28.067
My

343
00:14:28.067 --> 00:14:29.701
pleasure to be here.

344
00:14:29.701 --> 00:14:31.400
You came to the White House when?

345
00:14:31.400 --> 00:14:33.167
January of 1993,

346
00:14:33.167 --> 00:14:35.000
first day of the administration.

347
00:14:35.000 --> 00:14:37.033
From what background?

348
00:14:37.033 --> 00:14:38.801
Well, I had been with then-governor Clinton

349
00:14:38.801 --> 00:14:40.634
on the campaign, and prior to that I ran a consumer group in

350
00:14:40.634 --> 00:14:42.267
Washington -- wrote books and lobbied for good government and

351
00:14:42.267 --> 00:14:43.968
all sorts of things.

352
00:14:43.968 --> 00:14:45.767
On the campaign trail, wrote speeches for the

353
00:14:45.767 --> 00:14:47.601
pres-- for the candidate?

354
00:14:47.601 --> 00:14:49.567
Or did whatever was necessary?

355
00:14:49.567 --> 00:14:51.267
Not-- I was sort-of doing a lot of different

356
00:14:51.267 --> 00:14:53.167
things, not actually speechwriting.

357
00:14:53.167 --> 00:14:54.834
And then some of my writing caught his eye, and he had me

358
00:14:54.834 --> 00:14:56.868
work on some speeches.

359
00:14:56.868 --> 00:14:58.634
I really dabbled in it for the first few

360
00:14:58.634 --> 00:15:00.434
years of the administration.

361
00:15:00.434 --> 00:15:02.300
And then I became director of speechwriting in '95.

362
00:15:02.300 --> 00:15:04.200
OK.

363
00:15:04.200 --> 00:15:05.901
Just in time for the government to shut down.

364
00:15:05.901 --> 00:15:07.634
We'll talk about that.

365
00:15:07.634 --> 00:15:09.200
What did you have to do with the inaugural

366
00:15:09.200 --> 00:15:10.901
address, for example?

367
00:15:10.901 --> 00:15:12.667
Well, the first inaugural was one of the

368
00:15:12.667 --> 00:15:14.367
speeches that I helped out on.

369
00:15:14.367 --> 00:15:16.200
That was something where I and another speechwriter worked with

370
00:15:16.200 --> 00:15:17.701
him in the governor's mansion in Arkansas and

371
00:15:17.701 --> 00:15:19.200
then on the bus trip--

372
00:15:19.200 --> 00:15:20.701
Yeah?

373
00:15:20.701 --> 00:15:22.200
--up to Washington and then in Blair House in

374
00:15:22.200 --> 00:15:23.701
the days right up before the inauguration.

375
00:15:23.701 --> 00:15:25.601
It's quite something.

376
00:15:25.601 --> 00:15:27.667
And then in the second inaugural

377
00:15:27.667 --> 00:15:29.300
you were in charge.

378
00:15:29.300 --> 00:15:30.934
I was in charge, but-- on something like

379
00:15:30.934 --> 00:15:32.567
an inaugural address, that's one of the kinds of speeches where

380
00:15:32.567 --> 00:15:34.200
he really has a very clear sense of what he

381
00:15:34.200 --> 00:15:35.834
wants to do and works

382
00:15:35.834 --> 00:15:37.767
on it, and we all-- We're there to help

383
00:15:37.767 --> 00:15:39.868
him, as much as anything.

384
00:15:39.868 --> 00:15:42.133
Take me through a speech for the president.

385
00:15:42.133 --> 00:15:44.467
I mean, you can make it the State of the Union, or you can

386
00:15:44.467 --> 00:15:46.467
make it something else, but it's an important address for the

387
00:15:46.467 --> 00:15:48.434
country or to some interesting group.

388
00:15:48.434 --> 00:15:50.200
How does it begin?

389
00:15:50.200 --> 00:15:51.767
What's your role?

390
00:15:51.767 --> 00:15:53.167
What's the president's role?

391
00:15:53.167 --> 00:15:54.501
What are other aides roles?

392
00:15:54.501 --> 00:15:55.968
Who gets to see it?

393
00:15:55.968 --> 00:15:57.334
Who has to OK it?

394
00:15:57.334 --> 00:15:58.901
Et cetera.

395
00:15:58.901 --> 00:16:00.467
It really does depend on how big a deal the

396
00:16:00.467 --> 00:16:02.000
speech is.

397
00:16:02.000 --> 00:16:03.567
For the everyday speech, there's a topic

398
00:16:03.567 --> 00:16:05.133
chosen, there's policies

399
00:16:05.133 --> 00:16:07.601
decided on.

400
00:16:07.601 --> 00:16:09.567
What's going to be announced.

401
00:16:09.567 --> 00:16:11.567
And, generally speaking, the speechwriter will work with

402
00:16:11.567 --> 00:16:13.534
other staff and maybe get a chance to talk to the president

403
00:16:13.534 --> 00:16:15.534
beforehand and send something in to him and then

404
00:16:15.534 --> 00:16:17.534
he'll rewrite it

405
00:16:17.534 --> 00:16:19.400
or use it or-- There won't be such an extensive process of

406
00:16:19.400 --> 00:16:22.133
revising it.

407
00:16:22.133 --> 00:16:24.934
For a State of the Union, I mean, a State of the Union

408
00:16:24.934 --> 00:16:27.300
Address is more than just a speech, even more than just a

409
00:16:27.300 --> 00:16:29.701
speech to 80 million people watching on TV.

410
00:16:29.701 --> 00:16:32.300
It's the way President Clinton, anyway,

411
00:16:32.300 --> 00:16:35.033
organizes his government.

412
00:16:35.033 --> 00:16:37.801
It's the way the policy agenda for the year is set up.

413
00:16:37.801 --> 00:16:40.868
So, for something like that, the speech is delivered in

414
00:16:40.868 --> 00:16:43.434
January, and we started months in advance -- canvassing

415
00:16:43.434 --> 00:16:46.000
agencies, working with the Domestic Policy Council and the

416
00:16:46.000 --> 00:16:48.434
National Economic Council to figure out what

417
00:16:48.434 --> 00:16:50.901
the policies are.

418
00:16:50.901 --> 00:16:54.000
As you can imagine, there was a whole process on Social Security

419
00:16:54.000 --> 00:16:57.200
and what he might say on Social Security.

420
00:16:57.200 --> 00:17:00.167
We reach out -- and the president reaches out

421
00:17:00.167 --> 00:17:03.267
personally, also -- to a whole host of people on the outside --

422
00:17:03.267 --> 00:17:06.067
academics, writers, friends of his -- to get ideas.

423
00:17:06.067 --> 00:17:08.701
You mean he's on the phone (mimes picking up the

424
00:17:08.701 --> 00:17:10.434
phone with his right hand) -- he's left-handed, I guess

425
00:17:10.434 --> 00:17:12.133
(switches to his left hand) -- he's on the phone.

426
00:17:12.133 --> 00:17:13.868
He's on the phone.

427
00:17:13.868 --> 00:17:15.567
And he's writing down notes as

428
00:17:15.567 --> 00:17:17.300
he talks to people

429
00:17:17.300 --> 00:17:19.100
about what they think he ought to say.

430
00:17:19.100 --> 00:17:22.634
Right. Right.

431
00:17:22.634 --> 00:17:24.100
And we also ask outside writers to send in memos and thoughts,

432
00:17:24.100 --> 00:17:26.067
pieces of scripture or anything that would be useful, and we

433
00:17:26.067 --> 00:17:28.701
pass that on to him.

434
00:17:28.701 --> 00:17:31.467
It's a very big process.

435
00:17:31.467 --> 00:17:33.767
And we sit down with him and he gives a sense of what he wants,

436
00:17:33.767 --> 00:17:36.367
and there is a lot of trading back and forth of ideas.

437
00:17:36.367 --> 00:17:38.834
And this year, in December, I rode up with him

438
00:17:38.834 --> 00:17:41.200
on Air Force One.

439
00:17:41.200 --> 00:17:43.467
And I had given him a memo of what the policies where

440
00:17:43.467 --> 00:17:45.400
recommended to be in the speech.

441
00:17:45.400 --> 00:17:47.601
And he wrote out an outline of what he wanted.

442
00:17:47.601 --> 00:17:49.801
And that basically wound up being the speech you heard two

443
00:17:49.801 --> 00:17:51.701
months later.

444
00:17:51.701 --> 00:17:53.367
Your ear has to have the sound of his voice.

445
00:17:53.367 --> 00:17:55.133
You can't write for somebody else's voice -- your voice or

446
00:17:55.133 --> 00:17:56.934
someone else's voice.

447
00:17:56.934 --> 00:17:58.801
Right.

448
00:17:58.801 --> 00:18:00.701
You gotta hear his voice.

449
00:18:00.701 --> 00:18:02.634
If there's a speech and it's a wonderful

450
00:18:02.634 --> 00:18:04.567
speech and they say, ''That really sounds like Waldman,''

451
00:18:04.567 --> 00:18:06.501
then the speech is-- then I've failed.

452
00:18:06.501 --> 00:18:08.601
You've failed as a speechwriter?

453
00:18:08.601 --> 00:18:11.033
Yeah, as-- the art of being a speechwriter is

454
00:18:11.033 --> 00:18:13.334
you really have to have someone else's voice in your head and

455
00:18:13.334 --> 00:18:16.200
really hear the sentences coming out in someone else's voice.

456
00:18:16.200 --> 00:18:19.033
Now, when it's a president who late-night comics can do

457
00:18:19.033 --> 00:18:21.467
imitations of, it's actually a little bit easier.

458
00:18:21.467 --> 00:18:24.100
His distinctive mannerisms, the cadences of his sentences is--

459
00:18:24.100 --> 00:18:26.901
those are things that are actually more familiar than

460
00:18:26.901 --> 00:18:29.701
you'd think.

461
00:18:29.701 --> 00:18:32.067
But it really has to be something in his-- in his voice.

462
00:18:32.067 --> 00:18:34.901
And at this point there's a real consistency to how he talks

463
00:18:34.901 --> 00:18:37.300
about things, to how he gives a State of the Union and all those

464
00:18:37.300 --> 00:18:40.501
kinds of things.

465
00:18:40.501 --> 00:18:43.234
Why not more eloquence from

466
00:18:43.234 --> 00:18:46.167
this president? Eloquence.

467
00:18:46.167 --> 00:18:49.801
I think that, when the time is right, he is

468
00:18:49.801 --> 00:18:53.000
very eloquent.

469
00:18:53.000 --> 00:18:56.300
I think that, when there's an occasion, such as a ceremonial

470
00:18:56.300 --> 00:18:59.734
occasion -- a eulogy, for example -- he is

471
00:18:59.734 --> 00:19:02.567
evocative and poetic.

472
00:19:02.567 --> 00:19:05.434
When it comes to something like a State of the Union or the

473
00:19:05.434 --> 00:19:08.334
bread-and-butter speeches, I think his view-- again, I think

474
00:19:08.334 --> 00:19:11.267
he's very direct.

475
00:19:11.267 --> 00:19:13.701
I think that he moves an audience.

476
00:19:13.701 --> 00:19:15.801
But his view is really that what people want to hear from

477
00:19:15.801 --> 00:19:17.834
him and the best way for him to move the country

478
00:19:17.834 --> 00:19:19.634
is straight talk.

479
00:19:19.634 --> 00:19:21.501
Right.

480
00:19:21.501 --> 00:19:23.367
Kind of plain talk.

481
00:19:23.367 --> 00:19:25.033
Right.

482
00:19:25.033 --> 00:19:27.033
If I brought him a speech that was

483
00:19:27.033 --> 00:19:29.167
Churchillian, he would say, ''That's just

484
00:19:29.167 --> 00:19:31.334
words, words, words.

485
00:19:31.334 --> 00:19:33.467
This is-- what I want to say is how does this work, how is this

486
00:19:33.467 --> 00:19:35.634
going to affect people's lives.''

487
00:19:35.634 --> 00:19:37.801
Yeah. So, he would reject it if it was too

488
00:19:37.801 --> 00:19:39.934
Churchillian or too

489
00:19:39.934 --> 00:19:42.467
John-Kennedy-esque in a sense of being flourishing with great--

490
00:19:42.467 --> 00:19:44.868
with words that would ring in your head, like, ''Ask not what

491
00:19:44.868 --> 00:19:46.767
you can do for your country, ask what your

492
00:19:46.767 --> 00:19:48.634
country can do for you.''

493
00:19:48.634 --> 00:19:50.200
Yeah, no.

494
00:19:50.200 --> 00:19:51.734
Or, ''Ask not what your

495
00:19:51.734 --> 00:19:53.300
country can do for you--''

496
00:19:53.300 --> 00:19:54.868
I think it's an over-generalization to say

497
00:19:54.868 --> 00:19:56.400
that he doesn't do that at all times.

498
00:19:56.400 --> 00:19:58.634
I think that after the Oklahoma City bombing, for example--

499
00:19:58.634 --> 00:20:01.567
Absolutely.

500
00:20:01.567 --> 00:20:04.567
--he really brought the country together

501
00:20:04.567 --> 00:20:07.501
with some very powerful, powerful words.

502
00:20:07.501 --> 00:20:10.467
The eulogy for the slain Capitol Hill Police officers,

503
00:20:10.467 --> 00:20:13.100
just this past summer, which was very shocking because it was

504
00:20:13.100 --> 00:20:15.701
right there at the doorstep of the House of Representatives.

505
00:20:15.701 --> 00:20:18.033
I think that's an example where he really spoke brilliantly.

506
00:20:18.033 --> 00:20:20.667
Now, did you write those words?

507
00:20:20.667 --> 00:20:22.934
Based on what?

508
00:20:22.934 --> 00:20:24.868
Those kinds of words.

509
00:20:24.868 --> 00:20:26.801
And also we know about how memorable he's been in black

510
00:20:26.801 --> 00:20:28.767
churches, for example.

511
00:20:28.767 --> 00:20:30.734
That's right.

512
00:20:30.734 --> 00:20:32.734
But that's mainly ad lib.

513
00:20:32.734 --> 00:20:34.701
I think, we'll come to that in a moment.

514
00:20:34.701 --> 00:20:36.868
But did you write the words of tribute to the policemen that

515
00:20:36.868 --> 00:20:38.734
had been killed in the White-- in the Capitol?

516
00:20:38.734 --> 00:20:40.968
The one thing I'll say is that, while I hope

517
00:20:40.968 --> 00:20:42.868
he hired me-- he hired me for my talent, but I hope he keeps me

518
00:20:42.868 --> 00:20:44.567
for my discretion.

519
00:20:44.567 --> 00:20:46.434
So, I won't get into too much detail on what

520
00:20:46.434 --> 00:20:48.100
speechwriters did.

521
00:20:48.100 --> 00:20:50.033
All right.

522
00:20:50.033 --> 00:20:51.968
But we sent him a draft, and

523
00:20:51.968 --> 00:20:53.701
he worked off that.

524
00:20:53.701 --> 00:20:55.467
He edited it and used-- put in some additional things.

525
00:20:55.467 --> 00:20:57.501
But that's something where there's a real collaboration

526
00:20:57.501 --> 00:20:59.834
with him and the speechwriters.

527
00:20:59.834 --> 00:21:01.834
Does he see it beforehand?

528
00:21:01.834 --> 00:21:03.834
Or is it pretty much-- he gets in the car, and he's gonna

529
00:21:03.834 --> 00:21:05.601
go somewhere to make a speech and he opens it up

530
00:21:05.601 --> 00:21:07.167
and there it is?

531
00:21:07.167 --> 00:21:08.601
Depends how organized we are

532
00:21:08.601 --> 00:21:10.167
at any given moment.

533
00:21:10.167 --> 00:21:11.868
You are?

534
00:21:11.868 --> 00:21:13.667
Or he is?

535
00:21:13.667 --> 00:21:15.234
We are, and he is.

536
00:21:15.234 --> 00:21:16.701
Again, for a State of the Union, they'll block off two

537
00:21:16.701 --> 00:21:18.267
weeks on his schedule to do almost nothing else

538
00:21:18.267 --> 00:21:19.701
but work on it.

539
00:21:19.701 --> 00:21:21.267
Yeah.

540
00:21:21.267 --> 00:21:23.033
And he'll rehearse it at a Teleprompter

541
00:21:23.033 --> 00:21:24.667
for days on end.

542
00:21:24.667 --> 00:21:27.200
For a big speech -- say, giving a commencement address or

543
00:21:27.200 --> 00:21:29.834
something like that -- we'll have some meetings with him.

544
00:21:29.834 --> 00:21:32.534
We'll pass it back and forth.

545
00:21:32.534 --> 00:21:35.000
For a typical day's speech, he will get it the day before.

546
00:21:35.000 --> 00:21:37.167
He may not even look at it until shortly before the speech.

547
00:21:37.167 --> 00:21:39.567
We'll get a chance to talk to him about what the idea is.

548
00:21:39.567 --> 00:21:41.868
And he'll mark it up.

549
00:21:41.868 --> 00:21:44.367
He'll work on it in the car.

550
00:21:44.367 --> 00:21:46.968
You'll often see him on stage with his-- with his pen, with

551
00:21:46.968 --> 00:21:49.234
his Sharpie, marking it up on stage.

552
00:21:49.234 --> 00:21:51.801
And then it's often the case that the most magical things,

553
00:21:51.801 --> 00:21:55.434
the things that are quoted or remembered are what he comes

554
00:21:55.434 --> 00:21:58.367
with at the podium.

555
00:21:58.367 --> 00:22:02.234
I'll try to artfully phrase this.

556
00:22:02.234 --> 00:22:06.367
What for you has been the most extraordinary words to come out

557
00:22:06.367 --> 00:22:10.234
of this president's mouth?

558
00:22:10.234 --> 00:22:14.000
I actually think that some of the things he

559
00:22:14.000 --> 00:22:17.467
said in that very first inaugural address, which came

560
00:22:17.467 --> 00:22:20.801
very much from his heart and were heard very much by the

561
00:22:20.801 --> 00:22:23.634
country, have actually stood up quite well.

562
00:22:23.634 --> 00:22:26.300
''There's nothing wrong with America that can't be cured with

563
00:22:26.300 --> 00:22:29.801
what's right with America.'' At the time, people were pretty

564
00:22:29.801 --> 00:22:33.334
doubtful about the country.

565
00:22:33.334 --> 00:22:36.934
And there was a sense that it was in decline.

566
00:22:36.934 --> 00:22:40.267
And I think that looking back over the six years that he's

567
00:22:40.267 --> 00:22:43.534
been office, which seemed to me at least to be a period of

568
00:22:43.534 --> 00:22:46.868
increasing progress and also increasing confidence--

569
00:22:46.868 --> 00:22:49.634
self-confidence on the part of the country at what it can do --

570
00:22:49.634 --> 00:22:52.400
increasing trust in the government and things like that.

571
00:22:52.400 --> 00:22:55.367
I think that a number of the things in the first inaugural

572
00:22:55.367 --> 00:22:58.367
really hold up very well.

573
00:22:58.367 --> 00:23:01.667
Another passage -- I was just looking at it in preparation for

574
00:23:01.667 --> 00:23:05.234
this show -- where he talks about Washington being a place

575
00:23:05.234 --> 00:23:08.534
where people are too focused on who's up and who's down and

576
00:23:08.534 --> 00:23:11.601
who's in and who's out and not really remembering who sent us

577
00:23:11.601 --> 00:23:14.567
here, who sent the members of Congress and the president--

578
00:23:14.567 --> 00:23:17.334
I realize you're still the speechwriter and you

579
00:23:17.334 --> 00:23:19.868
have to go back to Washington and go back to work.

580
00:23:19.868 --> 00:23:22.634
But just give me some sense -- and so, therefore, this colors

581
00:23:22.634 --> 00:23:25.834
what you say or influences what you say -- on the other hand,

582
00:23:25.834 --> 00:23:28.834
you know, I assume that we can expect you to-- to-- to give us

583
00:23:28.834 --> 00:23:31.701
some insight into what it is that he does well.

584
00:23:31.701 --> 00:23:35.567
What is it you like about the way he handles speeches?

585
00:23:35.567 --> 00:23:39.534
I think that everyone has their strengths,

586
00:23:39.534 --> 00:23:43.167
and he has his.

587
00:23:43.167 --> 00:23:47.067
I think that his greatest strengths are clear exposition

588
00:23:47.067 --> 00:23:50.434
of the policy direction that he wants to set for the country and

589
00:23:50.434 --> 00:23:54.567
doing it in a way that really connects to people, that

590
00:23:54.567 --> 00:23:58.734
explains what can often be very arcane stuff to people in a way

591
00:23:58.734 --> 00:24:02.300
that moves them in their lives.

592
00:24:02.300 --> 00:24:05.367
I also think he does a good job of speaking to some of the more

593
00:24:05.367 --> 00:24:09.133
fundamental -- often religious -- values that

594
00:24:09.133 --> 00:24:12.701
underpin public life.

595
00:24:12.701 --> 00:24:15.767
Speaking in black churches, speaking on civil rights,

596
00:24:15.767 --> 00:24:19.167
speaking in what -- to me -- was the most remarkable moment that

597
00:24:19.167 --> 00:24:22.067
I've seen at Little Rock Central High School.

598
00:24:22.067 --> 00:24:25.334
That's a speech.

599
00:24:25.334 --> 00:24:28.601
It took place in September of '97, last year-- two years ago,

600
00:24:28.601 --> 00:24:31.534
now, actually.

601
00:24:31.534 --> 00:24:34.567
Where it was a celebration and a commemoration of the

602
00:24:34.567 --> 00:24:37.067
desegregation of the high school in Little Rock, which was this

603
00:24:37.067 --> 00:24:39.767
flashpoint of the civil rights movement.

604
00:24:39.767 --> 00:24:42.400
And he gave a beautiful speech that really spoke to the history

605
00:24:42.400 --> 00:24:45.033
of the country.

606
00:24:45.033 --> 00:24:47.267
The idea that, when the Declaration of Independence was

607
00:24:47.267 --> 00:24:49.567
propounded, it was an ideal.

608
00:24:49.567 --> 00:24:52.267
And what we've spent all this time doing is trying to live up

609
00:24:52.267 --> 00:24:54.501
to it.

610
00:24:54.501 --> 00:24:57.100
And then, at the end of it, the Little Rock Nine marched up the

611
00:24:57.100 --> 00:25:00.234
steps, this time a president of the United States opened the

612
00:25:00.234 --> 00:25:03.501
door for them.

613
00:25:03.501 --> 00:25:06.801
He's actually very moving in that kind of a setting.

614
00:25:06.801 --> 00:25:10.133
And then the final thing is simply watching him, especially

615
00:25:10.133 --> 00:25:13.133
in a-- in a setting with a large number of people, actually

616
00:25:13.133 --> 00:25:16.701
watching him at the podium, connecting with the audience,

617
00:25:16.701 --> 00:25:20.033
having almost a sixth sense of what's moving them, what needs

618
00:25:20.033 --> 00:25:23.467
more explanation, what they're agreeing with.

619
00:25:23.467 --> 00:25:26.968
It's like watching Sammy Sosa hit home runs.

620
00:25:26.968 --> 00:25:31.133
As a performance, it's a remarkable thing to see.

621
00:25:31.133 --> 00:25:34.501
What he has is some intrinsic or instinctive

622
00:25:34.501 --> 00:25:37.701
understanding of what people want to hear, what's on their

623
00:25:37.701 --> 00:25:41.534
mind, or how to connect in a way, to express an idea that

624
00:25:41.534 --> 00:25:45.200
they want to hear.

625
00:25:45.200 --> 00:25:47.667
It's more he knows what he wants to say.

626
00:25:47.667 --> 00:25:50.133
And he knows when he's getting blank stares, when--

627
00:25:50.133 --> 00:25:52.601
So, what do you do when you get blank stares?

628
00:25:52.601 --> 00:25:55.100
What he'll do is he'll explain. And people

629
00:25:55.100 --> 00:25:57.567
say, ''Why are the speeches so long?''

630
00:25:57.567 --> 00:26:00.534
Sometimes it's because he really has a lot he wants to

631
00:26:00.534 --> 00:26:03.667
say, and he'll find a way in.

632
00:26:03.667 --> 00:26:06.868
He'll find a way to talk to a labor union audience about free

633
00:26:06.868 --> 00:26:09.934
trade, and he'll leave with applause.

634
00:26:09.934 --> 00:26:13.367
Without deviating from his advocacy for free trade, which

635
00:26:13.367 --> 00:26:16.467
is, you know, very far from their position.

636
00:26:16.467 --> 00:26:19.501
It's really-- It's something to learn from.

637
00:26:19.501 --> 00:26:22.701
I certainly have learned a lot as I've watched him.

638
00:26:22.701 --> 00:26:26.400
But, at the same time, if the president has

639
00:26:26.400 --> 00:26:29.868
received some criticism -- not just recently in the last year

640
00:26:29.868 --> 00:26:32.834
-- but over the term of his political career, it is his

641
00:26:32.834 --> 00:26:35.467
ability to parse language in a way that he can seemingly to

642
00:26:35.467 --> 00:26:37.701
appeal to someone when, in fact, he may be

643
00:26:37.701 --> 00:26:39.901
meaning something different.

644
00:26:39.901 --> 00:26:42.334
And a closer reading of the language might

645
00:26:42.334 --> 00:26:45.434
have indicated that.

646
00:26:45.434 --> 00:26:48.634
That seems to be, in some cases, his genius.

647
00:26:48.634 --> 00:26:52.200
I think that leadership, presidential

648
00:26:52.200 --> 00:26:55.434
leadership, involves moving a country along -- as FDR did --

649
00:26:55.434 --> 00:26:58.701
not always by banging your fist and saying, ''This is how we

650
00:26:58.701 --> 00:27:01.767
must do things.'' But moving, often incrementally, often

651
00:27:01.767 --> 00:27:04.300
tilting a little bit this way and tilting a little bit this

652
00:27:04.300 --> 00:27:06.834
way, until by the end of it people have changed their views

653
00:27:06.834 --> 00:27:09.934
almost-- without always realizing that that's what

654
00:27:09.934 --> 00:27:13.167
they're doing.

655
00:27:13.167 --> 00:27:15.834
So, that-- A big project for him, one of the things he's been

656
00:27:15.834 --> 00:27:18.634
very aware of trying to do, is to rehabilitate trust in

657
00:27:18.634 --> 00:27:21.300
government and change people's vision of how

658
00:27:21.300 --> 00:27:24.033
government can work.

659
00:27:24.033 --> 00:27:27.601
That's what, for example, balancing the budget and welfare

660
00:27:27.601 --> 00:27:30.567
reform have been about in part.

661
00:27:30.567 --> 00:27:33.567
And so over-- if you listened to the State of the Union

662
00:27:33.567 --> 00:27:36.567
addresses, over the time there's really been an effort to

663
00:27:36.567 --> 00:27:39.534
convince people that this-- what he calls this

664
00:27:39.534 --> 00:27:42.534
''third way,'' not

665
00:27:42.534 --> 00:27:46.100
old-style big government, not a new kind of individualistic--

666
00:27:46.100 --> 00:27:49.467
I hear you, but let me come back to my point--

667
00:27:49.467 --> 00:27:52.267
My point really is, which I think you know-- It is-- it is

668
00:27:52.267 --> 00:27:56.434
his capacity to use language in a way so that people are hearing

669
00:27:56.434 --> 00:27:59.801
what they want to hear rather than what he, in fact, is saying

670
00:27:59.801 --> 00:28:03.434
or intending to say.

671
00:28:03.434 --> 00:28:07.300
The genius of being able to-- to-- to use words almost in a

672
00:28:07.300 --> 00:28:10.701
manipulative way.

673
00:28:10.701 --> 00:28:13.968
I think, when it comes to things like policy

674
00:28:13.968 --> 00:28:16.968
speeches, the way he uses words are the way any leader of a

675
00:28:16.968 --> 00:28:19.334
democracy uses words.

676
00:28:19.334 --> 00:28:22.767
I think he's very aware of the nuances.

677
00:28:22.767 --> 00:28:25.934
He's aware of how different audiences will

678
00:28:25.934 --> 00:28:29.033
hear different things.

679
00:28:29.033 --> 00:28:31.801
There are times when any leader is clearer and where the full

680
00:28:31.801 --> 00:28:34.267
meaning is not as out front.

681
00:28:34.267 --> 00:28:36.934
But I think that-- I think ultimately that people know what

682
00:28:36.934 --> 00:28:39.701
he-- what he's saying.

683
00:28:39.701 --> 00:28:42.000
They know the direction he wants on things.

684
00:28:42.000 --> 00:28:44.367
It's one of the reasons there have been so many controversies

685
00:28:44.367 --> 00:28:46.367
from health care to Social Security.

686
00:28:46.367 --> 00:28:48.734
You know?

687
00:28:48.734 --> 00:28:50.834
I think ultimately people know quite clearly what he--

688
00:28:50.834 --> 00:28:52.968
what he's aiming at.

689
00:28:52.968 --> 00:28:55.067
I remember, when we first started doing this

690
00:28:55.067 --> 00:28:57.200
program in 1991, people who were in New

691
00:28:57.200 --> 00:28:59.300
Hampshire would come back

692
00:28:59.300 --> 00:29:01.901
to this program and they'd say, ''This guy is as good as anybody

693
00:29:01.901 --> 00:29:04.367
I've seen on the campaign trail in a long time.'' They'd go

694
00:29:04.367 --> 00:29:07.634
back to Jack Kennedy or to others -- Franklin Roosevelt,

695
00:29:07.634 --> 00:29:11.501
perhaps none of these guys had seen Franklin Roosevelt.

696
00:29:11.501 --> 00:29:14.601
Some of 'em had seen Jack Kennedy.

697
00:29:14.601 --> 00:29:17.667
What is it that he has on the campaign trail that connects?

698
00:29:17.667 --> 00:29:19.634
It's--

699
00:29:19.634 --> 00:29:21.601
Not in a speech.

700
00:29:21.601 --> 00:29:23.567
Yeah.

701
00:29:23.567 --> 00:29:25.534
In the way he moves with a crowd and the way he

702
00:29:25.534 --> 00:29:27.501
handles them individually.

703
00:29:27.501 --> 00:29:29.734
Well, the thing that's really remarkable,

704
00:29:29.734 --> 00:29:31.667
almost even more than the speeches is when he goes and

705
00:29:31.667 --> 00:29:33.667
shakes hands on the rope line, as it's called, in front of the

706
00:29:33.667 --> 00:29:35.434
stage after he gives a speech.

707
00:29:35.434 --> 00:29:37.300
All politicians do that.

708
00:29:37.300 --> 00:29:39.534
And people have all kinds of brief conversations with people

709
00:29:39.534 --> 00:29:42.334
in a crowd.

710
00:29:42.334 --> 00:29:44.968
He comes back, and he says, ''Here's what this one--'' He's

711
00:29:44.968 --> 00:29:47.467
managed, somehow, to get the life story out of each person

712
00:29:47.467 --> 00:29:50.267
and to sum up some policy or to have a fairly meaningful policy

713
00:29:50.267 --> 00:29:53.067
discussion with each person along the line.

714
00:29:53.067 --> 00:29:55.400
And none of us know how he does it.

715
00:29:55.400 --> 00:29:57.667
And, in fact, these-- we then sometimes go talk to the people

716
00:29:57.667 --> 00:30:00.100
because we may want to use their stories in speeches.

717
00:30:00.100 --> 00:30:02.534
Oh, I see.

718
00:30:02.534 --> 00:30:04.968
He comes back after working a line, and he says to you or some

719
00:30:04.968 --> 00:30:07.400
other aide--

720
00:30:07.400 --> 00:30:09.801
''This person-- their child was sick and they

721
00:30:09.801 --> 00:30:12.234
took advantage of the Family Medical Leave Act.

722
00:30:12.234 --> 00:30:15.634
This person still needs to get health care.

723
00:30:15.634 --> 00:30:19.400
And this person-- this person goes to community college and is

724
00:30:19.400 --> 00:30:22.968
wondering how they're gonna be able to make it into a four-year

725
00:30:22.968 --> 00:30:26.901
college.'' And he manages not only to weave those stories into

726
00:30:26.901 --> 00:30:30.701
the next speech, but he's extracted from people a very

727
00:30:30.701 --> 00:30:33.801
full sense of what they-- what they're interested in, and in a

728
00:30:33.801 --> 00:30:37.167
way that is-- It can only be explained by something very--

729
00:30:37.167 --> 00:30:40.167
what I believe is very genuine in him in terms of a connection

730
00:30:40.167 --> 00:30:43.067
with people.

731
00:30:43.067 --> 00:30:45.467
And that's something that a lot of politicians fake.

732
00:30:45.467 --> 00:30:48.033
But with him I think it's very genuine.

733
00:30:48.033 --> 00:30:50.868
Was this last-- how difficult was this last year

734
00:30:50.868 --> 00:30:53.467
for you?

735
00:30:53.467 --> 00:30:55.934
It was less difficult for me than it was, I

736
00:30:55.934 --> 00:30:58.300
think, for the president and for a lot of other people.

737
00:30:58.300 --> 00:30:59.734
Of course, that's true.

738
00:30:59.734 --> 00:31:01.167
But also--

739
00:31:01.167 --> 00:31:02.634
I was a--

740
00:31:02.634 --> 00:31:04.067
I mean, here's somebody you're working with who

741
00:31:04.067 --> 00:31:05.501
you know has misled his staff.

742
00:31:05.501 --> 00:31:08.968
Right.

743
00:31:08.968 --> 00:31:12.067
Well, we knew that part of the way through the year.

744
00:31:12.067 --> 00:31:14.634
It was very difficult.

745
00:31:14.634 --> 00:31:17.100
It was, as many people said, it was like a parallel universe

746
00:31:17.100 --> 00:31:19.667
because what we spent our time doing was not Monica Lewinsky,

747
00:31:19.667 --> 00:31:25.734
not the investigations.

748
00:31:25.734 --> 00:31:28.868
Most of the people in the White House spent our time working on

749
00:31:28.868 --> 00:31:31.968
speeches, working on policies, working on legislation.

750
00:31:31.968 --> 00:31:35.100
And yet the

751
00:31:35.100 --> 00:31:38.200
>>TV would be on in the corner: But didn't you talk about it

752
00:31:38.200 --> 00:31:41.334
when you went to the cafeteria?

753
00:31:41.334 --> 00:31:43.801
Or to eat?

754
00:31:43.801 --> 00:31:46.434
Or wherever you go to eat -- White House mess, I assume.

755
00:31:46.434 --> 00:31:51.667
Yeah, sure. Sure.

756
00:31:51.667 --> 00:31:54.501
But no-- very happily they managed to segregate out most of

757
00:31:54.501 --> 00:31:57.934
the actual work on that stuff in its own unit.

758
00:31:57.934 --> 00:32:01.734
So, to the extent people talked about it, it was no more or less

759
00:32:01.734 --> 00:32:04.834
than anybody else in an office talking about it.

760
00:32:04.834 --> 00:32:07.601
And you had to have a kind of a discipline to not let it get you

761
00:32:07.601 --> 00:32:10.100
down, not let it obscure-- keep you from going in

762
00:32:10.100 --> 00:32:12.400
and doing your work.

763
00:32:12.400 --> 00:32:14.868
So, what would you say to yourself?

764
00:32:14.868 --> 00:32:17.434
''I've got this work to do; it's in the nation's interest;

765
00:32:17.434 --> 00:32:19.601
and so, therefore, let's get on with it and let's not be so

766
00:32:19.601 --> 00:32:21.501
indulgent that we can think about, speculate, be concerned

767
00:32:21.501 --> 00:32:23.434
about this whole other arena that's taking place with the

768
00:32:23.434 --> 00:32:25.367
lawyers and everyone else''?

769
00:32:25.367 --> 00:32:27.067
Right.

770
00:32:27.067 --> 00:32:28.934
Right, and if you spent your time doing that or if you let

771
00:32:28.934 --> 00:32:31.200
yourself get dragged down by it, you wouldn't be

772
00:32:31.200 --> 00:32:33.667
able to do your job.

773
00:32:33.667 --> 00:32:36.434
And part of it was we saw him doing that.

774
00:32:36.434 --> 00:32:39.033
One of the reasons, I think, that he connected over the past

775
00:32:39.033 --> 00:32:41.133
year to the public is they saw him under improbable

776
00:32:41.133 --> 00:32:43.267
circumstances focusing on their stuff--

777
00:32:43.267 --> 00:32:45.367
Yeah.

778
00:32:45.367 --> 00:32:47.501
--their issues. And so that actually was--

779
00:32:47.501 --> 00:32:49.601
that emanated outward.

780
00:32:49.601 --> 00:32:52.968
And from the speechwriting perspective it was interesting.

781
00:32:52.968 --> 00:32:55.200
Speeches that might not otherwise have gotten covered,

782
00:32:55.200 --> 00:32:57.467
got covered in the press because of the intense focus on him.

783
00:32:57.467 --> 00:32:59.267
It may have been, ''Well, President Clinton--''

784
00:32:59.267 --> 00:33:01.100
Sure, because we wanted to hear everything he

785
00:33:01.100 --> 00:33:02.901
said because he might say something about--

786
00:33:02.901 --> 00:33:04.734
Well, there was a time when every speech was

787
00:33:04.734 --> 00:33:06.534
covered live on the

788
00:33:06.534 --> 00:33:08.567
all-news networks in the hope that he might mention something

789
00:33:08.567 --> 00:33:10.334
about it.

790
00:33:10.334 --> 00:33:12.200
Yeah, exactly.

791
00:33:12.200 --> 00:33:14.334
I know.

792
00:33:14.334 --> 00:33:16.400
So, you know?

793
00:33:16.400 --> 00:33:18.000
People would be--

794
00:33:18.000 --> 00:33:19.601
You'd see Breaking News on CNN and MSNBC.

795
00:33:19.601 --> 00:33:21.200
Breaking News, education policy.

796
00:33:21.200 --> 00:33:22.567
And it's just the president

797
00:33:22.567 --> 00:33:23.968
making some statement--

798
00:33:23.968 --> 00:33:25.334
Right.

799
00:33:25.334 --> 00:33:26.734
--about education policy to a group that was

800
00:33:26.734 --> 00:33:28.100
wildly in favor of him when he arrived.

801
00:33:28.100 --> 00:33:29.801
Right.

802
00:33:29.801 --> 00:33:31.701
Or the network news would say, ''Well, President Clinton wanted

803
00:33:31.701 --> 00:33:33.701
to talk about health care today.'' And then they'd run 10

804
00:33:33.701 --> 00:33:35.067
seconds of him on health care.

805
00:33:35.067 --> 00:33:36.400
''But what we wanted to know was why wasn't he

806
00:33:36.400 --> 00:33:37.767
doing this or that.''

807
00:33:37.767 --> 00:33:39.100
Some of the State of the Unions -- 1995 State of

808
00:33:39.100 --> 00:33:40.467
the Union.

809
00:33:40.467 --> 00:33:42.100
Did you know that the president was also writing a kind of

810
00:33:42.100 --> 00:33:43.567
speech with Dick Morris?

811
00:33:43.567 --> 00:33:45.067
No.

812
00:33:45.067 --> 00:33:46.567
I was not actually deeply involved in that one, but I will

813
00:33:46.567 --> 00:33:48.033
tell that even the speechwriters in the staff who

814
00:33:48.033 --> 00:33:49.534
were working on

815
00:33:49.534 --> 00:33:51.367
it did not know of Morris' involvement.

816
00:33:51.367 --> 00:33:52.901
The president knew, and that's one of the-- He's good-- he's

817
00:33:52.901 --> 00:33:54.434
good at using different sources when he needs to, but the staff

818
00:33:54.434 --> 00:33:55.968
did not know it.

819
00:33:55.968 --> 00:33:57.501
There's no doubt in my mind

820
00:33:57.501 --> 00:33:59.033
that, if there wasn't

821
00:33:59.033 --> 00:34:00.901
a-- I guess it's the 22nd amendment, that this man would

822
00:34:00.901 --> 00:34:02.567
run again for president.

823
00:34:02.567 --> 00:34:04.334
Any doubt in your mind?

824
00:34:04.334 --> 00:34:05.868
He says he would--

825
00:34:05.868 --> 00:34:07.634
I know he does.

826
00:34:07.634 --> 00:34:09.400
But I don't know if it-- if push came to

827
00:34:09.400 --> 00:34:12.634
shove, I don't know. But--

828
00:34:12.634 --> 00:34:14.267
Because he loves the job so much.

829
00:34:14.267 --> 00:34:15.901
He loves the job. He's still-- if you look at

830
00:34:15.901 --> 00:34:17.534
this year's State of the Union and

831
00:34:17.534 --> 00:34:19.901
this year's agenda, it's the most aggressive and ambitious

832
00:34:19.901 --> 00:34:21.934
seventh-year agenda for a president that I can remember.

833
00:34:21.934 --> 00:34:23.968
And so he's not coasting.

834
00:34:23.968 --> 00:34:25.968
He's still very much-- very much with it.

835
00:34:25.968 --> 00:34:27.400
All right.

836
00:34:27.400 --> 00:34:28.834
Let me-- Take a look at this--

837
00:34:28.834 --> 00:34:30.234
Sure.

838
00:34:30.234 --> 00:34:31.667
You showed-- brought this for me to

839
00:34:31.667 --> 00:34:33.067
take a look at.

840
00:34:33.067 --> 00:34:34.801
This is-- we're not gonna show you this in terms of specifics,

841
00:34:34.801 --> 00:34:36.601
but this is-- This shows you the kind of thing.

842
00:34:36.601 --> 00:34:38.467
At what stage is this draft?

843
00:34:38.467 --> 00:34:40.100
This is about the third or fourth draft.

844
00:34:40.100 --> 00:34:41.601
It's about a week out before the State of the Union.

845
00:34:41.601 --> 00:34:43.200
So, this is the most recent State of the Union?

846
00:34:43.200 --> 00:34:44.901
That's right.

847
00:34:44.901 --> 00:34:46.434
Right.

848
00:34:46.434 --> 00:34:48.100
And we'd been trading drafts back and forth,

849
00:34:48.100 --> 00:34:49.634
but what you see is that-- Some presidents just stand up and

850
00:34:49.634 --> 00:34:51.434
read what they're handed.

851
00:34:51.434 --> 00:34:53.534
And this president is actively engaged in

852
00:34:53.534 --> 00:34:55.667
writing and rewriting.

853
00:34:55.667 --> 00:34:57.734
And this changed quite a bit between this draft and when it

854
00:34:57.734 --> 00:35:00.100
wound up actually being spoken at the podium.

855
00:35:00.100 --> 00:35:02.367
Can I just read one thing here?

856
00:35:02.367 --> 00:35:04.901
About-- I mean, basically-- ''Tonight I have the honor and

857
00:35:04.901 --> 00:35:07.367
responsibility--'' And it was ''of reporting to you on the

858
00:35:07.367 --> 00:35:09.868
State of the Union.'' He said, ''Tonight I have the honor and

859
00:35:09.868 --> 00:35:11.968
responsibility of delivering the last report of the 20th

860
00:35:11.968 --> 00:35:14.033
century'' -- his change from what you had written.

861
00:35:14.033 --> 00:35:16.067
But then that-- then he

862
00:35:16.067 --> 00:35:17.868
changed that again.

863
00:35:17.868 --> 00:35:19.701
And that was not actually the way he said it.

864
00:35:19.701 --> 00:35:21.200
So, how'd he end up saying it?

865
00:35:21.200 --> 00:35:22.667
Do you remember?

866
00:35:22.667 --> 00:35:24.167
I think I had-- The first line of the

867
00:35:24.167 --> 00:35:25.634
speech was, ''Tonight I have the honor of

868
00:35:25.634 --> 00:35:27.100
reporting to you on the

869
00:35:27.100 --> 00:35:28.534
State of the Union.'' And then at the end of the speech he

870
00:35:28.534 --> 00:35:29.968
talked about--

871
00:35:29.968 --> 00:35:31.400
So, he went back to where

872
00:35:31.400 --> 00:35:32.834
it was at the beginning?

873
00:35:32.834 --> 00:35:34.901
Well, he felt that it was important to dig in

874
00:35:34.901 --> 00:35:36.968
right at the beginning to policy -- Social Security.

875
00:35:36.968 --> 00:35:39.000
But at the end of the speech he had a fairly extended and -- I

876
00:35:39.000 --> 00:35:41.067
think -- quite beautiful passage about the 20th

877
00:35:41.067 --> 00:35:43.133
century and how a

878
00:35:43.133 --> 00:35:45.634
president 100 years from tonight will look back.

879
00:35:45.634 --> 00:35:48.734
And that's when he put all the-- all the kind of placing of

880
00:35:48.734 --> 00:35:52.033
the speech.

881
00:35:52.033 --> 00:35:55.300
And then also he added this language.

882
00:35:55.300 --> 00:35:58.601
''The 21st century--'' something about ''began more

883
00:35:58.601 --> 00:36:01.601
than 300 days before--'' If you can read the language, I can't.

884
00:36:01.601 --> 00:36:04.067
The greatest trick for-- the greatest skill

885
00:36:04.067 --> 00:36:06.534
that I have as a secret is to be able to read his handwriting.

886
00:36:06.534 --> 00:36:08.634
Who's a left-hander, too.

887
00:36:08.634 --> 00:36:10.467
That's right.

888
00:36:10.467 --> 00:36:12.167
''The 21st century, barely more than 300 days

889
00:36:12.167 --> 00:36:13.868
before us'' -- I believe.

890
00:36:13.868 --> 00:36:15.601
Yeah.

891
00:36:15.601 --> 00:36:17.300
So, he-- this was the-- an

892
00:36:17.300 --> 00:36:19.000
intermediate draft.

893
00:36:19.000 --> 00:36:20.901
There were several drafts after that.

894
00:36:20.901 --> 00:36:22.834
But his comments would be like

895
00:36:22.834 --> 00:36:25.367
this on every draft?

896
00:36:25.367 --> 00:36:27.767
Yeah, especially in the framing of the

897
00:36:27.767 --> 00:36:29.501
speech at the beginning and the end.

898
00:36:29.501 --> 00:36:31.200
And then we-- starting several days before the speech--

899
00:36:31.200 --> 00:36:32.934
Yeah.

900
00:36:32.934 --> 00:36:34.667
--he would stand at the podium in the family

901
00:36:34.667 --> 00:36:36.367
theater, the movie theater in the White House, with

902
00:36:36.367 --> 00:36:38.267
a podium set up and a Teleprompter.

903
00:36:38.267 --> 00:36:40.167
And he would read through it over and over, and make changes

904
00:36:40.167 --> 00:36:42.601
as he went.

905
00:36:42.601 --> 00:36:45.234
And we would try and get down the changes.

906
00:36:45.234 --> 00:36:47.701
Yeah, what's all the practice about?

907
00:36:47.701 --> 00:36:50.567
Part of it is rewriting by speaking it.

908
00:36:50.567 --> 00:36:53.767
A lot of public speakers do it that way.

909
00:36:53.767 --> 00:36:56.968
And he would say, ''No, I don't want to say it this way.

910
00:36:56.968 --> 00:36:59.834
I want to say it that way.'' One thing that he did throughout

911
00:36:59.834 --> 00:37:02.234
this year, which a lot of us were amazed by, was he was

912
00:37:02.234 --> 00:37:04.567
counting-- He knew that the speech was too long, that we had

913
00:37:04.567 --> 00:37:06.801
given him.

914
00:37:06.801 --> 00:37:08.701
Yeah.

915
00:37:08.701 --> 00:37:10.801
And he was very involved in cutting it down

916
00:37:10.801 --> 00:37:12.601
and he would count the words that he cut at the bottom of

917
00:37:12.601 --> 00:37:14.534
each page.

918
00:37:14.534 --> 00:37:16.534
And he would-- he would come in in the morning

919
00:37:16.534 --> 00:37:18.634
after editing it overnight.

920
00:37:18.634 --> 00:37:20.734
And he'd say, ''Now, I cut 499 words.

921
00:37:20.734 --> 00:37:22.801
But you seem to have put back in 79 words.

922
00:37:22.801 --> 00:37:24.834
So, that means we need to--'' He was very conscious of that.

923
00:37:24.834 --> 00:37:26.634
And how long did the speech end up being?

924
00:37:26.634 --> 00:37:28.467
An hour and 17 minutes.

925
00:37:28.467 --> 00:37:30.367
And what did he intend for it to be?

926
00:37:30.367 --> 00:37:32.400
An hour or something?

927
00:37:32.400 --> 00:37:34.167
Longer than an hour.

928
00:37:34.167 --> 00:37:35.734
I think it was a little bit longer than he had intended, but

929
00:37:35.734 --> 00:37:37.167
there was also actually more applause

930
00:37:37.167 --> 00:37:38.734
than there was expected.

931
00:37:38.734 --> 00:37:41.234
Yeah.

932
00:37:41.234 --> 00:37:43.701
There is always this criticism.

933
00:37:43.701 --> 00:37:46.167
Every speechwriter in every speech gets some criticisms--

934
00:37:46.167 --> 00:37:48.634
the president always found out that, if he added a whole lot of

935
00:37:48.634 --> 00:37:51.133
these -- what some would say ''a collection of

936
00:37:51.133 --> 00:37:53.601
small ideas'' that

937
00:37:53.601 --> 00:37:56.734
would appeal to a variety of different groups -- it would end

938
00:37:56.734 --> 00:38:00.200
up with a kind of public approval that would increase his

939
00:38:00.200 --> 00:38:03.834
approval rating, rather than a kind of lofty speech with some

940
00:38:03.834 --> 00:38:06.267
huge unifying theme.

941
00:38:06.267 --> 00:38:08.734
I assume that's experience from watching the results.

942
00:38:08.734 --> 00:38:11.167
Any State of the Union Address by any

943
00:38:11.167 --> 00:38:13.634
president really has quite a bit of policy

944
00:38:13.634 --> 00:38:18.901
and a lot of different policies.

945
00:38:18.901 --> 00:38:21.300
If you read John Kennedy's State of the Union addresses,

946
00:38:21.300 --> 00:38:23.200
they're not ''Ask not what your country can do for you,''

947
00:38:23.200 --> 00:38:25.100
they're ''third, we must lower the tariff.''

948
00:38:25.100 --> 00:38:27.000
Yeah.

949
00:38:27.000 --> 00:38:28.868
In this year's speech, there

950
00:38:28.868 --> 00:38:33.234
were some very big proposals.

951
00:38:33.234 --> 00:38:35.601
The surplus and devoting 60 percent of it for Social

952
00:38:35.601 --> 00:38:37.767
Security and paying down the debt.

953
00:38:37.767 --> 00:38:39.968
I don't think it's really fair to say that that's a

954
00:38:39.968 --> 00:38:42.167
small idea. But--

955
00:38:42.167 --> 00:38:44.334
Well, but let me take-- The most important one I

956
00:38:44.334 --> 00:38:46.534
think about, which was a big idea, is that

957
00:38:46.534 --> 00:38:49.334
right after the 1994 election, which brought Republican control

958
00:38:49.334 --> 00:38:51.734
of the House, as I remember the opening remarks were ''the era

959
00:38:51.734 --> 00:38:54.734
of big government is over.'' That was a theme of the speech.

960
00:38:54.734 --> 00:38:57.968
It's actually-- it's even a little

961
00:38:57.968 --> 00:39:01.033
more interesting than that.

962
00:39:01.033 --> 00:39:03.901
He delivered that speech in the beginning of 1996, right after

963
00:39:03.901 --> 00:39:06.767
the government shutdown and after he had, in effect, won a

964
00:39:06.767 --> 00:39:09.734
grand battle with the Republicans in the Congress over

965
00:39:09.734 --> 00:39:12.200
what the shape of the government should be.

966
00:39:12.200 --> 00:39:14.834
And by saying, ''The era of big government is over,'' he was

967
00:39:14.834 --> 00:39:17.567
trying to put a capstone on that fight and

968
00:39:17.567 --> 00:39:20.567
proclaim a new consensus.

969
00:39:20.567 --> 00:39:23.434
It's actually a good example of how the way the words come out

970
00:39:23.434 --> 00:39:26.167
really can affect policy and politics.

971
00:39:26.167 --> 00:39:29.200
In earlier drafts, originally in that speech the draft he was

972
00:39:29.200 --> 00:39:32.234
working with said, ''The era of big government is over.

973
00:39:32.234 --> 00:39:34.934
But the era of every-man-for-himself must never

974
00:39:34.934 --> 00:39:37.868
begin.'' And there was a concern that that was not PC.

975
00:39:37.868 --> 00:39:40.701
That you couldn't really say, ''every man for himself'' so we

976
00:39:40.701 --> 00:39:43.701
struggled back and forth.

977
00:39:43.701 --> 00:39:46.200
And the end-product made the same point -- ''the era of big

978
00:39:46.200 --> 00:39:49.000
government is over.'' But the second sentence was longer and

979
00:39:49.000 --> 00:39:51.601
so what people heard and what the newscasts used was just the

980
00:39:51.601 --> 00:39:54.801
first part of the sentence.

981
00:39:54.801 --> 00:39:57.901
It was-- He was actually making a point about not being this

982
00:39:57.901 --> 00:40:00.334
sort of doctrinaire liberal or conservative.

983
00:40:00.334 --> 00:40:02.734


984
00:40:02.734 --> 00:40:05.167
My pleasure.

985
00:40:05.167 --> 00:40:07.601
It's great to have you here.

986
00:40:07.601 --> 00:40:10.033
We'll be right back.

987
00:40:10.033 --> 00:40:13.067
Stay with us.

988
00:40:13.067 --> 00:40:16.000
Actor Argues Robeson Personified Historic Intersection

989
00:40:16.000 --> 00:40:18.767
PAUL ROBESON was a true renaissance man of the

990
00:40:18.767 --> 00:40:21.767
20th century.

991
00:40:21.767 --> 00:40:24.901
The son of an ex-slave, he first made his mark as an

992
00:40:24.901 --> 00:40:27.801
athlete, scholar, actor and singer.

993
00:40:27.801 --> 00:40:30.601
In the 1940s, at the peak of his career, he turned his attention

994
00:40:30.601 --> 00:40:33.434
to political activism and became an outspoken pioneer for racial

995
00:40:33.434 --> 00:40:35.901
and economic justice.

996
00:40:35.901 --> 00:40:38.501
More than 20 years after his death, his memory is now being

997
00:40:38.501 --> 00:40:40.968
honored with the American Masters production PAUL ROBESON,

998
00:40:40.968 --> 00:40:43.534
Here I Stand.

999
00:40:43.534 --> 00:40:46.067
And here is a clip from that piece.

1000
00:40:46.067 --> 00:40:48.601
(excerpt from ''PAUL ROBESON, Here I Stand'')

1001
00:40:48.601 --> 00:40:51.234
Everywhere in the world he was known and revered.

1002
00:40:51.234 --> 00:40:54.300
Well, we must know of him.

1003
00:40:54.300 --> 00:40:58.100
And we must revere him.

1004
00:40:58.100 --> 00:41:02.033
The picture I have of him because I do have a

1005
00:41:02.033 --> 00:41:05.801
picture-- the hands crossed in front of him, the bigness of

1006
00:41:05.801 --> 00:41:09.300
stature and the smile that was as big as he was, you know?

1007
00:41:09.300 --> 00:41:13.334
And then all of these young men around him.

1008
00:41:13.334 --> 00:41:17.434
My image of that picture is a Christmas tree.

1009
00:41:17.434 --> 00:41:21.267
And he is the tree, and we are the ornaments.

1010
00:41:21.267 --> 00:41:24.601
And that's what I felt about him, that what he had done and

1011
00:41:24.601 --> 00:41:27.667
the trails that he had blazed at least showed us some things

1012
00:41:27.667 --> 00:41:31.167
about where to go or the consequences of going up this

1013
00:41:31.167 --> 00:41:34.434
route or another route.

1014
00:41:34.434 --> 00:41:37.968
And Paul was that.

1015
00:41:37.968 --> 00:41:41.667
Paul was a man with a 1,000 pockets and not even Paul knew

1016
00:41:41.667 --> 00:41:45.167
what was in every pocket.

1017
00:41:45.167 --> 00:41:48.067
He was one of the giants of the century -- multi-talented,

1018
00:41:48.067 --> 00:41:51.267
multi-dimensional, willing to jeopardize his own privileges

1019
00:41:51.267 --> 00:41:54.534
and career in order to help those less fortunate.

1020
00:41:54.534 --> 00:41:57.567
He was a giant.

1021
00:41:57.567 --> 00:42:00.868
The people who leave footprints in the

1022
00:42:00.868 --> 00:42:04.067
sands of time are the people who teach and inspire.

1023
00:42:04.067 --> 00:42:07.501
Paul was an inspirer.

1024
00:42:07.501 --> 00:42:10.934
If he were to come back at this very

1025
00:42:10.934 --> 00:42:14.400
moment, he would assess and he would evaluate where the losses

1026
00:42:14.400 --> 00:42:17.868
are, where the victories have been and how to regroup and how

1027
00:42:17.868 --> 00:42:21.334
to get on because the enemy is still there.

1028
00:42:21.334 --> 00:42:24.167
Joining me now to talk about the life of PAUL

1029
00:42:24.167 --> 00:42:26.801
ROBESON -- his son, PAUL ROBESON, Jr., and my friend and

1030
00:42:26.801 --> 00:42:29.033
fellow actor, OSSIE DAVIS, who wrote the play

1031
00:42:29.033 --> 00:42:30.968
PAUL ROBESON, All-American.

1032
00:42:30.968 --> 00:42:32.901
I am pleased to have both of them here.

1033
00:42:32.901 --> 00:42:34.601
Welcome back, sir.

1034
00:42:34.601 --> 00:42:36.400
Thank you.

1035
00:42:36.400 --> 00:42:38.234
Great to see you.

1036
00:42:38.234 --> 00:42:39.834
Welcome again.

1037
00:42:39.834 --> 00:42:41.567
Nice to be here.

1038
00:42:41.567 --> 00:42:43.100
Tell me what you think his

1039
00:42:43.100 --> 00:42:45.601
legacy is -- your father's.

1040
00:42:45.601 --> 00:42:47.734
As kind of a bearer of a culture, that is, a

1041
00:42:47.734 --> 00:42:50.901
value system.

1042
00:42:50.901 --> 00:42:54.100
It reflects the slave culture of the South

1043
00:42:54.100 --> 00:42:57.567
through many generations.

1044
00:42:57.567 --> 00:43:00.434
And a man with what he saw as a divine mission, that he belonged

1045
00:43:00.434 --> 00:43:03.467
to his people, humanity and God throughout his life.

1046
00:43:03.467 --> 00:43:07.267
So, his legacy would be what he

1047
00:43:07.267 --> 00:43:11.200
wanted it to be?

1048
00:43:11.200 --> 00:43:14.467
If I would sum up his legacy in one-- a

1049
00:43:14.467 --> 00:43:17.734
personal one -- ''Be who you are above all.

1050
00:43:17.734 --> 00:43:20.667
Be true to yourself.'' And that's an

1051
00:43:20.667 --> 00:43:23.767
important value for today.

1052
00:43:23.767 --> 00:43:26.734
He taught me to be my own person, famous as he was, great

1053
00:43:26.734 --> 00:43:29.234
as he was, he said, ''Be an original.

1054
00:43:29.234 --> 00:43:31.601
Be an original.''

1055
00:43:31.601 --> 00:43:34.334
''Be authentic.''

1056
00:43:34.334 --> 00:43:37.067
''Be authentic. Be authentic.''

1057
00:43:37.067 --> 00:43:39.801
What do you remember best about him my friend?

1058
00:43:39.801 --> 00:43:42.534
The impact. Paul was an occasion, you know, in

1059
00:43:42.534 --> 00:43:45.267
addition to being a man.

1060
00:43:45.267 --> 00:43:48.801
The physical impact, the spiritual impact, the glorious

1061
00:43:48.801 --> 00:43:51.834
sense of elevation that you got being in his presence, which

1062
00:43:51.834 --> 00:43:54.667
followed you after you left.

1063
00:43:54.667 --> 00:43:57.400
And you felt as if nothing could harm you.

1064
00:43:57.400 --> 00:43:59.934
Paul had shown you the way.

1065
00:43:59.934 --> 00:44:03.901
Now, is this the kinda feeling one today might

1066
00:44:03.901 --> 00:44:07.534
feel with Nelson Mandela, that kinda thing?

1067
00:44:07.534 --> 00:44:10.968
Some of-- some of it, yes.

1068
00:44:10.968 --> 00:44:14.567
And I think it grows out of a sense of incorporating struggle

1069
00:44:14.567 --> 00:44:17.467
as one of the central aspects of your life.

1070
00:44:17.467 --> 00:44:21.100
I don't mean ''struggle'' as, you know, ''scratching,'' but I

1071
00:44:21.100 --> 00:44:25.267
mean that humanity is involved in a struggle

1072
00:44:25.267 --> 00:44:29.067
against so many things.

1073
00:44:29.067 --> 00:44:32.567
And Paul -- and Nelson to some degree -- makes the struggle the

1074
00:44:32.567 --> 00:44:36.067
center of their spiritual adventure in the world.

1075
00:44:36.067 --> 00:44:39.667
There is the struggle between right and wrong.

1076
00:44:39.667 --> 00:44:42.868
We never know how it's ultimately gonna come out.

1077
00:44:42.868 --> 00:44:45.534
The important thing is to find the side that you think is right

1078
00:44:45.534 --> 00:44:48.167
and commit yourself to the struggle with all that you have.

1079
00:44:48.167 --> 00:44:50.667
And that's all that's guaranteed to you.

1080
00:44:50.667 --> 00:44:52.801
But there's a glory in it.

1081
00:44:52.801 --> 00:44:54.934
And it was Paul who showed us what that glory was.

1082
00:44:54.934 --> 00:44:58.367
Is there a tragedy in his life?

1083
00:44:58.367 --> 00:45:02.767
Oh, yes.

1084
00:45:02.767 --> 00:45:07.234
There was a tragedy in his life.

1085
00:45:07.234 --> 00:45:11.200
A man of his size, caught, you know, in the cross-currents of

1086
00:45:11.200 --> 00:45:16.534
his time, propelled by his-- he was unique and yet at the same

1087
00:45:16.534 --> 00:45:21.934
time he -- more than any other man I know -- was at the center

1088
00:45:21.934 --> 00:45:26.901
of-- the place where struggle of African-Americans in American

1089
00:45:26.901 --> 00:45:31.667
and the struggle of the colonial peoples in Africa converged in

1090
00:45:31.667 --> 00:45:36.367
him and through him and placed him in a position where he was

1091
00:45:36.367 --> 00:45:41.067
recognized as a very dangerous man.

1092
00:45:41.067 --> 00:45:45.033
And those who appreciated the danger that attended this

1093
00:45:45.033 --> 00:45:48.501
gigantic figure set out literally to destroy him or to

1094
00:45:48.501 --> 00:45:51.601
make it impossible for him, you know, to-- to-- to-- to perform

1095
00:45:51.601 --> 00:45:54.200
as he loved to perform.

1096
00:45:54.200 --> 00:45:56.734
Would that have happened -- and this is --

1097
00:45:56.734 --> 00:45:59.834
without the flirtation with Communism?

1098
00:45:59.834 --> 00:46:03.000
Yeah.

1099
00:46:03.000 --> 00:46:05.834
I'm sure it would have.

1100
00:46:05.834 --> 00:46:09.100
The forces, in my-- in my opinion, that saw the danger in

1101
00:46:09.100 --> 00:46:12.501
PAUL ROBESON, whatever you-- however you would describe them,

1102
00:46:12.501 --> 00:46:15.334
you know, would have seen those dangers.

1103
00:46:15.334 --> 00:46:18.267
The colonial powers were set, you know, to reverse what

1104
00:46:18.267 --> 00:46:20.734
Roosevelt had demanded of Churchill at the beginning of

1105
00:46:20.734 --> 00:46:24.033
World War II.

1106
00:46:24.033 --> 00:46:27.501
And Churchill wasn't about, you know, to

1107
00:46:27.501 --> 00:46:31.000
embrace the end of colonialism.

1108
00:46:31.000 --> 00:46:35.067
Paul, as the sort of quintessence-- African who was

1109
00:46:35.067 --> 00:46:38.634
himself an African scholar but also known throughout Africa and

1110
00:46:38.634 --> 00:46:42.100
the African leadership knew him as a person.

1111
00:46:42.100 --> 00:46:44.934
We could perceive that Paul was an instrument by which the

1112
00:46:44.934 --> 00:46:47.834
Africans were gonna liberate themselves.

1113
00:46:47.834 --> 00:46:51.167
And this was a challenge to powers, you know,

1114
00:46:51.167 --> 00:46:56.033
all across the country.

1115
00:46:56.033 --> 00:47:00.200
And whether he would-- whether they would call him a

1116
00:47:00.200 --> 00:47:04.334
''Communist'' or whatever, any name that they could use, you

1117
00:47:04.334 --> 00:47:07.868
know, to denigrate or to make him appear something-- distort

1118
00:47:07.868 --> 00:47:10.801
our image, to separate us from him.

1119
00:47:10.801 --> 00:47:13.300
What was their strategy and their tactics to make him an

1120
00:47:13.300 --> 00:47:16.167
ogre or something like that.

1121
00:47:16.167 --> 00:47:18.901
Let me go on.

1122
00:47:18.901 --> 00:47:21.200
His voice.

1123
00:47:21.200 --> 00:47:23.567
His command of a song.

1124
00:47:23.567 --> 00:47:25.667
His power on stage.

1125
00:47:25.667 --> 00:47:28.601
Tell me about it.

1126
00:47:28.601 --> 00:47:32.534
Well--

1127
00:47:32.534 --> 00:47:37.300
Since your voice is reasonably good, Mr. Davis.

1128
00:47:37.300 --> 00:47:41.968
His voice, number one, and his-- out of his voice

1129
00:47:41.968 --> 00:47:46.067
came a sense of command, a sense of power, that to us, a

1130
00:47:46.067 --> 00:47:49.400
powerless people, was almost an invitation to be born again.

1131
00:47:49.400 --> 00:47:52.701
I, as a boy in Georgia, you know, I knew what it meant to be

1132
00:47:52.701 --> 00:47:56.000
a ''nigger'' and how to cooperate with the system that

1133
00:47:56.000 --> 00:47:59.801
insisted that I be.

1134
00:47:59.801 --> 00:48:03.467
I knew how it diminished me as a human being.

1135
00:48:03.467 --> 00:48:06.400
And I accepted it because the culture insisted that I do.

1136
00:48:06.400 --> 00:48:09.434
Paul is one of the people who able by his voice and by the

1137
00:48:09.434 --> 00:48:12.033
command within it to reach inside and say, ''Hey, get up,

1138
00:48:12.033 --> 00:48:14.634
stand up.

1139
00:48:14.634 --> 00:48:16.834
You're a man, too.'' And I was man in his image -- the voice,

1140
00:48:16.834 --> 00:48:19.067
the songs.

1141
00:48:19.067 --> 00:48:21.601
There was art in them.

1142
00:48:21.601 --> 00:48:23.801
There was entertainment in them.

1143
00:48:23.801 --> 00:48:26.367
But there was more.

1144
00:48:26.367 --> 00:48:29.200
There was human spiritual regeneration in his singing.

1145
00:48:29.200 --> 00:48:31.567
And he knew that.

1146
00:48:31.567 --> 00:48:33.934
He knew the effect he had on people as he sung to them --

1147
00:48:33.934 --> 00:48:36.834
more than entertainment, more than the movie in

1148
00:48:36.834 --> 00:48:39.567
an artistic sense.

1149
00:48:39.567 --> 00:48:43.100
''But you shall be born again.'' You know?

1150
00:48:43.100 --> 00:48:46.033
''Because the power that I have and I share with you.''

1151
00:48:46.033 --> 00:48:49.601
Last question.

1152
00:48:49.601 --> 00:48:53.200
In your judgment at this time, did he

1153
00:48:53.200 --> 00:48:56.133
achieve his full potential?

1154
00:48:56.133 --> 00:48:58.834
The answer is ''yes.'' And he knew it.

1155
00:48:58.834 --> 00:49:02.234
I think Harry Belafonte said in--

1156
00:49:02.234 --> 00:49:05.834
American Masters.

1157
00:49:05.834 --> 00:49:09.634
--the American Masters that ''Paul

1158
00:49:09.634 --> 00:49:13.767
told me, 'Get them to sing your songs, and they will be

1159
00:49:13.767 --> 00:49:17.133
interested in knowing who you are'.'' My father achieved a

1160
00:49:17.133 --> 00:49:19.901
position where, when he sang to people all over the world, they

1161
00:49:19.901 --> 00:49:22.501
not only knew who he was, but they

1162
00:49:22.501 --> 00:49:24.667
discovered more about themselves.

1163
00:49:24.667 --> 00:49:26.834
Yeah.

1164
00:49:26.834 --> 00:49:28.667
He was a great empowerer--

1165
00:49:28.667 --> 00:49:30.567
Yes.

1166
00:49:30.567 --> 00:49:32.801
--not just an inspirer.

1167
00:49:32.801 --> 00:49:35.000
Yes.

1168
00:49:35.000 --> 00:49:37.734
He gave people an inner strength and he

1169
00:49:37.734 --> 00:49:40.534
knew he would-- he had done that perhaps as much as anybody in

1170
00:49:40.534 --> 00:49:43.400
his generation or in any generation.

1171
00:49:43.400 --> 00:49:45.767
So, he was utterly fulfilled as if he had fulfilled his divine

1172
00:49:45.767 --> 00:49:49.000
mission that he felt God gave him with that voice.

1173
00:49:49.000 --> 00:49:52.000
Is part of your mission keeper of the flame?

1174
00:49:52.000 --> 00:49:54.767
Never.

1175
00:49:54.767 --> 00:49:57.501
That flame is part of the African-American cultural flame

1176
00:49:57.501 --> 00:50:00.701
from 200 years.

1177
00:50:00.701 --> 00:50:03.434
There are those of us who feed it.

1178
00:50:03.434 --> 00:50:06.133
He's a special part of it.

1179
00:50:06.133 --> 00:50:08.934
So, to the extent that I can introduce his legacy as part of

1180
00:50:08.934 --> 00:50:11.367
that to people.

1181
00:50:11.367 --> 00:50:13.434
In a way, I'm part translator, part guide.

1182
00:50:13.434 --> 00:50:15.300
But he needs no keeper of any kind.

1183
00:50:15.300 --> 00:50:17.334
God forbid.

1184
00:50:17.334 --> 00:50:18.934
God forbid.

1185
00:50:18.934 --> 00:50:20.801
Of the flame.

1186
00:50:20.801 --> 00:50:22.334
There are those out there who would like

1187
00:50:22.334 --> 00:50:23.767
to keep it.

1188
00:50:23.767 --> 00:50:25.334
There are those who would like to snuff it.

1189
00:50:25.334 --> 00:50:27.133
But it's too powerful.

1190
00:50:27.133 --> 00:50:29.267
It's part of the greater flame.

1191
00:50:29.267 --> 00:50:31.467
I'm to feed the flame.

1192
00:50:31.467 --> 00:50:33.534
Ossie said, ''Just to look at him, to be in

1193
00:50:33.534 --> 00:50:35.367
love with him, was to be alive in a different kind of way.''

1194
00:50:35.367 --> 00:50:37.467
That is true.

1195
00:50:37.467 --> 00:50:39.734
That's the empowerment.

1196
00:50:39.734 --> 00:50:42.267
You know?

1197
00:50:42.267 --> 00:50:44.934
And I think it was Paul's belief that, ''though they kill

1198
00:50:44.934 --> 00:50:47.734
me, they cannot kill my song.

1199
00:50:47.734 --> 00:50:50.234
And, therefore, I am fulfilled.'' He had put it out

1200
00:50:50.234 --> 00:50:52.767
there for my use whatever became of him.

1201
00:50:52.767 --> 00:50:54.934
And because it was there I could always get it.

1202
00:50:54.934 --> 00:50:56.834
It's there now.

1203
00:50:56.834 --> 00:50:58.467
And a part of our job is to see that, you know, it's-- You know?

1204
00:50:58.467 --> 00:50:59.968
Here it is.

1205
00:50:59.968 --> 00:51:01.334
Come get it.

1206
00:51:01.334 --> 00:51:02.601
Thank you.

1207
00:51:02.601 --> 00:51:04.067
Thank you.

1208
00:51:04.067 --> 00:51:05.767
Thank you.

1209
00:51:05.767 --> 00:51:08.167
Thank you.

1210
00:51:08.167 --> 00:51:10.434
If you, too, want to know more about this

1211
00:51:10.434 --> 00:51:12.501
remarkable man, PAUL ROBESON -- American Masters, PAUL ROBESON,

1212
00:51:12.501 --> 00:51:14.534
Here I Stand airs on PBS Wednesday, February 24th, at

1213
00:51:14.534 --> 00:51:16.601
nine p.m.

1214
00:51:16.601 --> 00:51:18.634
Thank you for joining us.

1215
00:51:18.634 --> 
See you next time.