WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.334 --> 00:00:01.767 Hassan Sheikh Mohamud is with us, 2 00:00:01.767 --> 00:00:03.934 he is the President of Somalia. 3 00:00:03.934 --> 00:00:07.133 He is in New York to address the United Nations Security Council 4 00:00:07.133 --> 00:00:10.234 and attend the signing ceremony for the Paris Climate Change 5 00:00:10.234 --> 00:00:11.167 agreement. 6 00:00:11.167 --> 00:00:13.934 His administration is Somalia's first internationally recognized 7 00:00:13.934 --> 00:00:16.200 government in 20 years. 8 00:00:16.200 --> 00:00:19.067 He has been widely credited for his record in combating 9 00:00:19.067 --> 00:00:21.634 corruption, piracy and terrorism. 10 00:00:21.634 --> 00:00:23.534 Later this year, he will stand for reelection. 11 00:00:23.534 --> 00:00:26.067 I am pleased to have him back at this table. 12 00:00:26.067 --> 00:00:26.968 Welcome. 13 00:00:26.968 --> 00:00:27.801 Thank you, Charlie. 14 00:00:27.801 --> 00:00:28.434 Thank you. 15 00:00:28.434 --> 00:00:29.934 Tell me what you hope to accomplish with 16 00:00:29.934 --> 00:00:32.267 the Security Council. 17 00:00:32.267 --> 00:00:34.300 The Security Council, I came here, 18 00:00:34.300 --> 00:00:39.133 first of all, to brief them of the progress Somalia is making 19 00:00:39.133 --> 00:00:47.701 and to demand -- request them to make adjustment on the Security 20 00:00:47.701 --> 00:00:51.133 Council resolutions that have been existing there for Somalia 21 00:00:51.133 --> 00:00:56.067 and make base with the progress that's been happening 22 00:00:56.067 --> 00:00:57.300 on the ground. 23 00:00:57.300 --> 00:00:59.033 Those are the two main objectives. 24 00:00:59.033 --> 00:01:01.334 Can you tell us about the shipwreck last week? 25 00:01:01.334 --> 00:01:02.434 The? 26 00:01:02.434 --> 00:01:04.267 The tragic shipwreck that took place 27 00:01:04.267 --> 00:01:05.234 in the Mediterranean last week. 28 00:01:05.234 --> 00:01:06.200 It's very sad. 29 00:01:06.200 --> 00:01:07.000 It is very, very sad. 30 00:01:07.000 --> 00:01:11.601 This is not the first time, but this time it was very big. 31 00:01:11.601 --> 00:01:15.601 Still, the information is not complete, but what we have 32 00:01:15.601 --> 00:01:18.367 receiving, if it's true, it's a very serious tragic. 33 00:01:18.367 --> 00:01:25.033 And this is all about indicating in terms of Somalia the hope 34 00:01:25.033 --> 00:01:29.567 that the chances of a better life that is not existing in 35 00:01:29.567 --> 00:01:33.868 Somalia, that is all about this when a couple hundred people 36 00:01:33.868 --> 00:01:35.567 from Somalia died. 37 00:01:35.567 --> 00:01:38.868 And 200 of the 500 who died are Somalis. 38 00:01:38.868 --> 00:01:40.601 Yes, that's true. 39 00:01:40.601 --> 00:01:46.701 So, you know, there is one case example, Charlie, if I tell you, 40 00:01:46.701 --> 00:01:49.868 the last time when Somali State collapsed it was 1991, 41 00:01:49.868 --> 00:01:51.634 early 1991. 42 00:01:51.634 --> 00:01:55.567 A boy who was school age at that time, five years old today is 43 00:01:55.567 --> 00:02:00.501 31, never went to school, never went to formal training, 44 00:02:00.501 --> 00:02:02.767 so that's what makes them hopeless. 45 00:02:02.767 --> 00:02:07.467 So, it's very, very priority for us to create hope for those 46 00:02:07.467 --> 00:02:08.734 young generations. 47 00:02:08.734 --> 00:02:11.667 Tell us about terrorism in Africa. 48 00:02:11.667 --> 00:02:13.534 Terrorism in Africa, and particularly 49 00:02:13.534 --> 00:02:20.767 in the whole of Africa, is -- it has been -- it's big sometime, 50 00:02:20.767 --> 00:02:21.734 now it's not. 51 00:02:21.734 --> 00:02:26.033 And the main reason why it was in the past is there was a large 52 00:02:26.033 --> 00:02:29.968 territory ungoverned in Somalia where the terrorists 53 00:02:29.968 --> 00:02:33.767 established with themselves with training camps and all this. 54 00:02:33.767 --> 00:02:36.167 Now the reality on the ground has changed in the last 55 00:02:36.167 --> 00:02:37.534 four years. 56 00:02:37.534 --> 00:02:41.601 There is a governor system in Somalia expanded. 57 00:02:41.601 --> 00:02:45.234 There is no in a territory that is not -- that is not someone 58 00:02:45.234 --> 00:02:46.601 who is in charge. 59 00:02:46.601 --> 00:02:49.934 Yes, we can say those institutions that are at the local level 60 00:02:49.934 --> 00:02:55.100 they lack capacity, or still they are not but we have federal, 61 00:02:55.100 --> 00:02:58.701 regional states are there now controlling Somalia today. 62 00:02:58.701 --> 00:02:59.934 There are what, I'm sorry? 63 00:02:59.934 --> 00:03:01.434 Somalia is federated, 64 00:03:01.434 --> 00:03:02.467 become a federal system. 65 00:03:02.467 --> 00:03:03.934 Right, right. 66 00:03:03.934 --> 00:03:05.367 Federal member states are there. 67 00:03:05.367 --> 00:03:14.133 But there is a rise in the al-Shabaab, Boko 68 00:03:14.133 --> 00:03:21.501 Haram, Al Quaeda on the Arabian Peninsula, all of these beyond 69 00:03:21.501 --> 00:03:25.968 the Middle East which people are concerned, in Asia as well. 70 00:03:25.968 --> 00:03:32.601 How do you see the rise of this militant, radical, 71 00:03:32.601 --> 00:03:35.868 violent Islam? 72 00:03:35.868 --> 00:03:40.167 In the case of Somalia, I would have 73 00:03:40.167 --> 00:03:43.000 not categorized them as rising again. 74 00:03:43.000 --> 00:03:44.300 Yes. 75 00:03:44.300 --> 00:03:45.734 These people are people who have been 76 00:03:45.734 --> 00:03:49.968 controlling all over Somalia a few years back, and now there is 77 00:03:49.968 --> 00:03:54.934 no specific or major town or city that they do control in the 78 00:03:54.934 --> 00:04:01.200 remote areas, but the asymmetric war, the terrorism that are 79 00:04:01.200 --> 00:04:03.234 next to region is insurgents is still in place. 80 00:04:03.234 --> 00:04:06.834 Like a suicide bombing and this type of things is there. 81 00:04:06.834 --> 00:04:10.367 And you know, Charlie, this is a big war. 82 00:04:10.367 --> 00:04:16.334 It's almost a World War, and in the case of Somalia or in 83 00:04:16.334 --> 00:04:19.267 another case, when someone is saying that there are resurgent is 84 00:04:19.267 --> 00:04:24.267 there are indications of even there is something bad in one 85 00:04:24.267 --> 00:04:26.067 place or another. 86 00:04:26.067 --> 00:04:29.634 In a very big war sometimes it happens the battlefield 87 00:04:29.634 --> 00:04:33.734 something which is not likable happens. 88 00:04:33.734 --> 00:04:40.300 But I don't see any reason where they are becoming bold or 89 00:04:40.300 --> 00:04:42.734 powerful, particularly in Somalia. 90 00:04:42.734 --> 00:04:43.868 You do not? 91 00:04:43.868 --> 00:04:45.934 I do not at all. 92 00:04:45.934 --> 00:04:49.734 What is the -- how does Somalia as one place 93 00:04:49.734 --> 00:04:54.601 and a broader sense in Africa feel about the United States 94 00:04:54.601 --> 00:04:56.601 and its role? 95 00:04:56.601 --> 00:04:58.434 Well, for us, the United States has 96 00:04:58.434 --> 00:05:02.767 always been a very good friend for Somalia since its 97 00:05:02.767 --> 00:05:05.000 independence in 1991. 98 00:05:05.000 --> 00:05:07.501 The United States was the second government in the world that 99 00:05:07.501 --> 00:05:10.033 recognized Somalia where it got individuals. 100 00:05:10.033 --> 00:05:13.934 So, the plate number of the American embassy used to be 101 00:05:13.934 --> 00:05:15.033 number two. 102 00:05:15.033 --> 00:05:15.534 Yes. 103 00:05:15.534 --> 00:05:16.934 What's number one? 104 00:05:16.934 --> 00:05:18.367 Russia was number one. 105 00:05:18.367 --> 00:05:20.334 I think U.S. is number two. 106 00:05:20.334 --> 00:05:23.701 So, you know, since then there was this good relations. 107 00:05:23.701 --> 00:05:26.734 Sometimes there are ups and downs in the relationship. 108 00:05:26.734 --> 00:05:28.167 Where is it now? 109 00:05:28.167 --> 00:05:31.968 Now is the best time that we enjoy 110 00:05:31.968 --> 00:05:35.334 a good relationship with the United States because we have 111 00:05:35.334 --> 00:05:39.200 one common enemy that we all of us are fighting together 112 00:05:39.200 --> 00:05:41.501 in side by side to eliminate -- 113 00:05:41.501 --> 00:05:42.400 And what is that enemy? 114 00:05:42.400 --> 00:05:44.267 That enemy is the extremist 115 00:05:44.267 --> 00:05:47.033 al-Shabaab or -- 116 00:05:47.033 --> 00:05:48.033 Or Boko Haram. 117 00:05:48.033 --> 00:05:50.667 Global terrorism all over the world. 118 00:05:50.667 --> 00:05:54.334 They are linked -- they have good networking among them so 119 00:05:54.334 --> 00:05:57.033 the rest of the world get Somalia and the United States 120 00:05:57.033 --> 00:06:01.167 are partners in that war and we're doing very fine. 121 00:06:01.167 --> 00:06:02.534 Are you seeking a closer relationship 122 00:06:02.534 --> 00:06:04.000 to Russia? 123 00:06:04.000 --> 00:06:06.968 Well, Somalia is seeking a good 124 00:06:06.968 --> 00:06:08.734 relationship with all over the world. 125 00:06:08.734 --> 00:06:14.400 There is no one country who is not violating the principles -- 126 00:06:14.400 --> 00:06:15.968 Some friends are better than other friends 127 00:06:15.968 --> 00:06:18.467 and these things you would like to have. 128 00:06:18.467 --> 00:06:19.667 Of course, some friends are better 129 00:06:19.667 --> 00:06:21.534 than other or closer than others. 130 00:06:21.534 --> 00:06:22.434 That's true. 131 00:06:22.434 --> 00:06:25.200 The United States is very close with Somalia. 132 00:06:25.200 --> 00:06:26.167 Russia? 133 00:06:26.167 --> 00:06:27.000 Russia not yet. 134 00:06:27.000 --> 00:06:28.300 We are starting now. 135 00:06:28.300 --> 00:06:31.434 What are you asking from them? 136 00:06:31.434 --> 00:06:34.133 Well, reestablishing the relationship 137 00:06:34.133 --> 00:06:37.400 again, and Somalia is a country in a post-conflict environment 138 00:06:37.400 --> 00:06:40.601 and just starting to reconstruct from zero. 139 00:06:40.601 --> 00:06:45.234 So, we need every partner that can contribute the reconstruct 140 00:06:45.234 --> 00:06:48.400 in Somalia in a manner that doesn't affect the relationship 141 00:06:48.400 --> 00:06:50.467 with our other friends. 142 00:06:50.467 --> 00:06:51.868 How about China? 143 00:06:51.868 --> 00:06:54.300 China, we have a relationship in the 144 00:06:54.300 --> 00:06:57.434 past and now we already have -- or they are reopening their 145 00:06:57.434 --> 00:07:01.334 embassy in Mogadishu, and Chinese diplomats are there and 146 00:07:01.334 --> 00:07:05.133 they are part of the world, partners that are contributing 147 00:07:05.133 --> 00:07:06.934 and supporting Somalia. 148 00:07:06.934 --> 00:07:09.767 What does Somalia need, in your judgment? 149 00:07:09.767 --> 00:07:11.501 Obviously, economic growth? 150 00:07:11.501 --> 00:07:13.067 Yes. 151 00:07:13.067 --> 00:07:17.534 Right now, the war against extremism, in the front, in 152 00:07:17.534 --> 00:07:22.267 the military front, it has been progressive and very far away. 153 00:07:22.267 --> 00:07:26.334 But the war against terrorism and the extremism is not only 154 00:07:26.334 --> 00:07:29.167 military front, there is the economic favor, there is a 155 00:07:29.167 --> 00:07:30.567 social factor. 156 00:07:30.567 --> 00:07:32.200 So, Somalia is now beginning. 157 00:07:32.200 --> 00:07:37.734 And one of the reasons why we came here was, in Washington 158 00:07:37.734 --> 00:07:41.267 the last two days, is to seek further support to the United 159 00:07:41.267 --> 00:07:45.501 States administration to support the economic recovery of 160 00:07:45.501 --> 00:07:49.167 Somalia, improving the livelihoods of the Somalis. 161 00:07:49.167 --> 00:07:50.300 And how do you do that, by trade, 162 00:07:50.300 --> 00:07:53.100 by economic grants, what? 163 00:07:53.100 --> 00:07:55.634 They are doing that by providing 164 00:07:55.634 --> 00:07:58.934 certain infrastructure that stimulates the economy, like 165 00:07:58.934 --> 00:08:03.667 improving the irrigation system, improving the roads, 166 00:08:03.667 --> 00:08:07.734 supporting the agricultural extension. 167 00:08:07.734 --> 00:08:11.400 This type of a small micro projects that are right now 168 00:08:11.400 --> 00:08:13.801 what Somalia is getting. 169 00:08:13.801 --> 00:08:21.834 And we are also propagating selling the world the idea of 170 00:08:21.834 --> 00:08:27.334 the investment in Somalia, not necessarily yesterday or the day 171 00:08:27.334 --> 00:08:30.501 before, but today, there is the question of Somalia. 172 00:08:30.501 --> 00:08:33.934 There are some other places in the world where Somalia has 173 00:08:33.934 --> 00:08:37.133 presented the economic opportunities and investment 174 00:08:37.133 --> 00:08:39.734 opportunities that exist in Somalia. 175 00:08:39.734 --> 00:08:41.434 A columnist argued in the New York Times 176 00:08:41.434 --> 00:08:43.601 that if Obama wants to make a lasting and low cost investment 177 00:08:43.601 --> 00:08:48.534 in Africa's next generation, he must make education specifically 178 00:08:48.534 --> 00:08:52.834 science and technology a central focus of the development 179 00:08:52.834 --> 00:08:53.634 debate. 180 00:08:53.634 --> 00:08:54.267 Yes. 181 00:08:54.267 --> 00:08:55.000 You agree with that totally? 182 00:08:55.000 --> 00:08:56.000 Yes, I do agree. 183 00:08:56.000 --> 00:08:57.033 How do you do it? 184 00:08:57.033 --> 00:09:00.033 I do agree, and yesterday we have a 185 00:09:00.033 --> 00:09:06.067 very long discussion with the U.S. aid, and one topic of our 186 00:09:06.067 --> 00:09:10.133 agenda of discussion was supporting the overall education of 187 00:09:10.133 --> 00:09:14.234 Somalia in terms of vocational training, in terms of overhauling 188 00:09:14.234 --> 00:09:17.667 the whole education, changing the philosophy and mission and 189 00:09:17.667 --> 00:09:19.934 everything for long-term engagement. 190 00:09:19.934 --> 00:09:26.767 So, education is what makes the society that what makes -- what 191 00:09:26.767 --> 00:09:31.501 shapes the society is like particularly the psychological aspect 192 00:09:31.501 --> 00:09:35.667 of the society in the long run to become citizens that are -- 193 00:09:35.667 --> 00:09:37.868 worldwide citizens that contribute to the visual 194 00:09:37.868 --> 00:09:39.000 stability for the world. 195 00:09:39.000 --> 00:09:41.200 For individual countries. 196 00:09:41.200 --> 00:09:41.767 Yes. 197 00:09:41.767 --> 00:09:44.033 How large a problem is corruption? 198 00:09:44.033 --> 00:09:48.067 Because you've had so many examples in different places, 199 00:09:48.067 --> 00:09:51.734 and every nation has had examples of corruption and graft 200 00:09:51.734 --> 00:09:53.234 and fraud and all that. 201 00:09:53.234 --> 00:09:57.767 But how problematic is it for African nations for a lot of 202 00:09:57.767 --> 00:10:01.234 reasons including commodities and so forth in such a cyclical 203 00:10:01.234 --> 00:10:02.701 part of their economy? 204 00:10:02.701 --> 00:10:03.801 Indeed it is. 205 00:10:03.801 --> 00:10:06.934 And generally, in Africa corruption is a phenomenon that most 206 00:10:06.934 --> 00:10:12.200 African states right now are fighting with and establishing 207 00:10:12.200 --> 00:10:18.934 platforms to compete -- to combat the corruption. 208 00:10:18.934 --> 00:10:23.000 In places like Somalia, it's a very serious question because of 209 00:10:23.000 --> 00:10:28.434 the weakness of state institutions in place, because 210 00:10:28.434 --> 00:10:33.367 of the poverty that is very, very rampant and obvious. 211 00:10:33.367 --> 00:10:35.868 Those are the factors that contribute us. 212 00:10:35.868 --> 00:10:40.634 But the most important thing is building state institutions that 213 00:10:40.634 --> 00:10:43.767 are oppose enough to make their checks and balances that 214 00:10:43.767 --> 00:10:46.601 necessary for combating the corruption. 215 00:10:46.601 --> 00:10:49.868 I mean, it's interesting because many people 216 00:10:49.868 --> 00:10:55.968 look at Africa, many people with investment portfolios, they 217 00:10:55.968 --> 00:11:00.601 look at Africa as the continent of the future, perhaps because 218 00:11:00.601 --> 00:11:06.200 of where it is and the enormous natural resources that are there 219 00:11:06.200 --> 00:11:14.133 and what is necessary for Africa, they suggest, to be a 220 00:11:14.133 --> 00:11:19.868 subject of great investment is rule of law, confidence 221 00:11:19.868 --> 00:11:24.234 in the government. 222 00:11:24.234 --> 00:11:26.267 Well, you know, Charlie, Africa is a 223 00:11:26.267 --> 00:11:28.434 very young continent. 224 00:11:28.434 --> 00:11:34.167 We don't have the essentials of state building in many parts of 225 00:11:34.167 --> 00:11:35.367 the world. 226 00:11:35.367 --> 00:11:39.000 All those positive attributes that you see, the resources, the 227 00:11:39.000 --> 00:11:43.133 young nation, many parts of the world, populations are aging. 228 00:11:43.133 --> 00:11:46.334 In Africa 75 percent of the population, it's a young 229 00:11:46.334 --> 00:11:48.968 continent in terms of population, in terms of -- 230 00:11:48.968 --> 00:11:51.033 And that is such a positive for economic growth. 231 00:11:51.033 --> 00:11:52.534 Growth, that is what makes. 232 00:11:52.534 --> 00:11:57.000 But still there is a long way to go in building a strong state 233 00:11:57.000 --> 00:12:00.701 institutions and developing the culture, not only the 234 00:12:00.701 --> 00:12:04.000 institutions of the rule of law, of course very important, but 235 00:12:04.000 --> 00:12:08.133 also the culture of statehood is a phenomenon that needs in 236 00:12:08.133 --> 00:12:13.968 Africa, tribalism and clanism are still forces that are 237 00:12:13.968 --> 00:12:19.167 pulling back when the nations try to move forward. 238 00:12:19.167 --> 00:12:20.667 And how will that change? 239 00:12:20.667 --> 00:12:23.534 It is changing as the economic growth 240 00:12:23.534 --> 00:12:29.801 is improving, as education is improving, as modern technology 241 00:12:29.801 --> 00:12:30.968 becoming used. 242 00:12:30.968 --> 00:12:35.100 This is improving very fast, that's what makes Africa one of 243 00:12:35.100 --> 00:12:38.534 the fastest growing economies in the world. 244 00:12:38.534 --> 00:12:40.167 What's your own economic growth rate? 245 00:12:40.167 --> 00:12:41.033 Somalia? 246 00:12:41.033 --> 00:12:41.968 Yes. 247 00:12:41.968 --> 00:12:43.000 Three point seven. 248 00:12:43.000 --> 00:12:44.133 Three point -- it's better than the U.S. 249 00:12:44.133 --> 00:12:46.734 For the first time in the history, the 250 00:12:46.734 --> 00:12:49.667 IMF has published to their report Somalia last year 251 00:12:49.667 --> 00:12:54.033 indicating that 3.7 is the economic growth in Somalia. 252 00:12:54.033 --> 00:12:56.767 The 2015, we're still waiting the report, 253 00:12:56.767 --> 00:12:58.234 but we are expecting more. 254 00:12:58.234 --> 00:12:58.934 Better? 255 00:12:58.934 --> 00:13:00.334 Better, yes. 256 00:13:00.334 --> 00:13:02.467 So, what's the story you want to tell the world 257 00:13:02.467 --> 00:13:04.234 about Somalia? 258 00:13:04.234 --> 00:13:08.400 I assume that's part of it, a growing economic growth. 259 00:13:08.400 --> 00:13:10.334 What I want to tell the world about 260 00:13:10.334 --> 00:13:17.133 Somalia is just down in the corner by establishing state 261 00:13:17.133 --> 00:13:21.400 institutions in place, by defeating the extremists, 262 00:13:21.400 --> 00:13:24.267 the scourge of the terrorism that has controlled the country 263 00:13:24.267 --> 00:13:26.400 for a long time. 264 00:13:26.400 --> 00:13:29.501 And now is the time tabbing and revitalizing the energy 265 00:13:29.501 --> 00:13:30.934 of the society. 266 00:13:30.934 --> 00:13:34.601 It's a strategy of inclusion, it's nature of resources, 267 00:13:34.601 --> 00:13:37.334 it's agriculture and livestock and fishery. 268 00:13:37.334 --> 00:13:39.567 This is beautiful opportunities in Somalia. 269 00:13:39.567 --> 00:13:42.167 I assume it's also harnessing the enormous 270 00:13:42.167 --> 00:13:43.767 capacity of women. 271 00:13:43.767 --> 00:13:46.968 Yes, that's what we hope. 272 00:13:46.968 --> 00:13:49.701 Somalia is, first of all is a young as part of African 273 00:13:49.701 --> 00:13:51.133 continent, a young nation. 274 00:13:51.133 --> 00:13:56.367 And women is playing major, major role and they prove that 275 00:13:56.367 --> 00:14:00.434 whenever a woman's leading, hope is high. 276 00:14:00.434 --> 00:14:02.300 You want the resources of all of your people. 277 00:14:02.300 --> 00:14:04.000 Of course. 278 00:14:04.000 --> 00:14:04.834 Thank you for coming. 279 00:14:04.834 --> 00:14:06.234 It's a pleasure to have you on the program. 280 00:14:06.234 --> 00:14:07.667 Pleasure to have you back at this table. 281 00:14:07.667 --> 00:14:09.200 Thank you very much, Charlie.