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Mike Morell is here.

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He's a former acting and deputy director of the CIA.

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He was also a contributor to CBS News but resigned in order to

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endorse Hillary Clinton.

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Most recently, he wrote an op-ed in "The New York Times" arguing

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that Donald Trump poses a threat to our national security

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if elected president.

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His book, "The Great War of Our Time: The CIA's Fight Against

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Terrorism from Al Qaeda to ISIS" was released

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in paperback yesterday.

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I am pleased to have him back at this table.

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Welcome.

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Thank you, Charlie.

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What does this book mean to you?

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Tell me about this.

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I mean you've had, how many years in the CIA?

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33.

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33 years.

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That's been your sort of post-college home?

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Right.

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So this book captures, really, the second half of my career,

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which was entirely focused around the terrorism question,

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first with al Qaeda and then, at the very end, with ISIS.

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So it captures what I did every day for 18 of those 33 years.

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The most important piece of this, to me, is the last

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chapter, which talks about the commitment and dedication,

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and amazing work that the men and women of CIA do every day,

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and the sacrifices that they make, from the family sacrifices

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all the way to being lost on the battlefield,

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and how we deal with that at the agency.

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And so we -- this was a life's work, in some sense.

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I wrote it very quickly.

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It's -- my heart is in there, and my soul is in there.

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And I really hope people will enjoy it.

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Now you also talk about

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national security threats.

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Give me your sense, based on the career you've had,

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conversations you take, the research and data you look at...

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Right.

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-- and you're now advising Hillary Clinton.

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How do you see the threats to the United States today?

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So I divide things --

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That's a great question, Charlie.

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So I divide things into two categories, national security

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threats, right, those countries, those people, who are actually

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trying to harm us in some way.

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And those issues that are national security challenges

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that if we don't manage right could become threats.

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So I have two different categories.

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Challenges and threats?

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Threats and challenges.

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So threats, right?

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Number one on the list, international terrorists, right?

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ISIS is at the top of that list today.

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Al Qaeda was at the top of it ten years ago.

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Al Qaeda is still part of that international terrorists.

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So that is number one on the list.

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We are at greater threat of a terrorist attack

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in the United States than we were at any time since 9/11.

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So I mean, that threat persists.

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I added a new introduction to the paperback version that

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brings all of this story up to date.

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A close number two, and rising rapidly, is the cyber threat.

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The threat posed by nation states, by criminal groups,

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by hacktivists, by insiders, right, to our computer networks,

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to our IT networks, from stealing information,

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to fraud, to doing damage to networks, right,

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in a war situation, so cyber is number two.

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The possibility of closing down

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the financial structure and so many other of your grids that...

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Absolutely.

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-- influence the way you live your life

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and could destroy the capacity to function.

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Number three, I would put North Korea on

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the list of threats, because North Korea has the capability

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today to launch a ballistic missile with a nuclear warhead

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on it that could reach the United States of America.

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Do I think that's going to happen?

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No.

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But that risk exists.

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Why do you think it's not going to happen?

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Because I think...

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We could shoot it down or because of what?

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Because I think, A, he's rational, right,

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and he understands that if he did that, that that would

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be the end of his country.

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Two, we have significant missile defense capabilities.

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So he could -- so they're -- you know, one could be fired

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in confusion, one could be fired miscalculation and,

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you know, we could deal with it.

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What I really worry about are two things.

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I worry less about them actually launching

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a missile at us.

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The two things I do worry about are, one, that there could be

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some sort of conflict between North and South Korea that could

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evolve into a nuclear strike by North Korea on South Korea.

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And the reason I'm worried about that is because South Korea

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used to simply take the blows that were given at it

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by North Korea.

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You know, the North Koreans sank a South Korean submarine

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several years ago.

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North Korea shelled a South Korean city that killed --

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killed a number of people several years ago.

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The South Koreans did nothing in response.

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Politically, that's coming to the point in South Korea where

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that is no longer acceptable.

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Politically, a South Korean regime is going to

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have to respond.

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Just a couple of months ago, a couple of North Korean

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operatives came across the border, planted some mines.

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A South Korean soldier walking along was killed

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by one of these mines.

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Um, the old South Korea would have just let that go.

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The new South Korea, Charlie, responded by firing

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50 artillery shells back into North Korea.

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So you can see how this could grow into something bigger,

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snowball into something bigger.

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So that's one thing I worry about, right, is something

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getting out of control between North and South Korea.

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Then probably the biggest I worry about is North Korea

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has already demonstrated that it is willing to sell

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ballistic missile technology and actually sell ballistic

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missiles and they've shown that they were willing to sell

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nuclear technology, which they did to the Syrians.

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And the Syrians were in the process of building a nuclear

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reactor to produce weapons-grade uranium...

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Is this what was destroyed by the Israelis?

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And the -- the Israelis destroyed it, right.

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So my main concern is that at some point, the North Koreans

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may decide that it is in their interests to either sell --

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to sell material for a nuclear weapon, a nuclear device itself,

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or, actually, a nuclear weapon.

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So I think this is -- that's why it's on my list of threats.

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We depend on the Chinese to do more, don't we?

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Yes, but we -- China is in a tough spot here.

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And, you know, people beat them up a lot on this,

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but they're in a really tough spot.

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Here's the spot they're in.

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Oh, by the way, there's been a major change in how the Chinese

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look at North Korea in the last five years.

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Five years ago, the Chinese looked at the Korean Peninsula

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and said the biggest threat to stability on this peninsula

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is the United States of America.

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That's what the Chinese thought five years ago.

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Now, they think the biggest threat to stability on the

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Korean Peninsula is their guy, Kim Jung Un, because of

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the crazy stuff he does.

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Yes, but you just said he was a rational man.

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You know, he lives in a -- I don't --

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I think there's a difference between shelling -- sinking

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a submarine, shelling a South Korean city, which he thinks he

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can get away with, which he may not be able to get away with

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anymore, and firing a nuclear weapon at the United States.

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Two completely different things.

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The top of the challenge list is China.

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It's not a threat.

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It's a challenge.

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And as we've talked about many, many times, whether it ever

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becomes a threat depends on how both we and the Chinese,

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how our leadership in Washington and the leadership in Beijing

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manages this relationship in East Asia and around the world,

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right, and how we deal with this fundamental problem that they

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want more say in the world around them, because they're

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getting stronger, and we have that say today.

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So how does that get worked out?

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Does it just mean they want more say in

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the world around them, or they may want more say in the world

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period, not just that they see the Pacific region

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as their sphere of influence...

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Yes.

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-- but because they understand...

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Both.

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-- that they are...

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Both.

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-- at some point becoming the world's largest

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economic power?

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Both, but I would make a distinction.

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In the world around them, in East Asia, they want

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considerable influence across the board.

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In the rest of the world, what they want their influence

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primarily for is economic reasons -- access to raw

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materials, resources, and access to markets.

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So, the goal is different in the two different parts

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of the world, I think, for them.

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So...

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Oh, and, yes, and Russia is number two

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on that list, right?

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We're not ready to go to war with Russia.

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We're not afraid that -- that Vladimir Putin

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is going to launch nuclear weapons at us, but --

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What are we afraid of?

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Yes, we're afraid of him doing it in the Baltics

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what he did in Ukraine, right?

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Or in Crimea.

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In Crimea, right?

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And, you know, we were not willing to go to war

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over Crimea, and Western Europe wasn't either.

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I think we might be willing to go to war over the Baltics.

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Do you think Hillary Clinton

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would go to war over the Baltics?

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I don't want to speak for her, right.

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But, I believe most American presidents -- every American

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president who's sat in their office, I believe, would be

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willing to go to war over the Baltics because of

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our NATO commitment.

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Donald Trump says it depends on how well

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they have contributed to NATO.

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And speaking of Donald Trump, you wrote an article and --

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you wrote an editorial in "The New York Times" basically

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saying that you were doing something you hadn't done

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before, you were retreating from a position of being

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bipartisan to endorse Hillary Clinton, because you thought

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the stakes were that serious and you thought it was

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a matter of a principle.

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Here's what Donald Trump said today, because he has just

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today, I think, received the first intelligence briefing that

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the two major party candidates receive during a political

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campaign from the CIA or the director of National

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Intelligence, wherever it comes from.

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"Hours before he is set to receive his first classified

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intelligence briefing, Donald Trump said he does not trust

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information coming out of U.S. intelligence agencies and

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indicated he would cease relying on the bulk of the intelligence

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community's massive workforce.

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During an interview aired on "Fox and Friends" Wednesday,

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Trump, the Republican nominee, was asked whether

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he'd trust intelligence.

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"Not so much from the people that have been doing it

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for our country," Trump responded.

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"I mean look what's happened over the last ten years.

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It's been catastrophic."

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Wow! Wow!

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I saw that, right.

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I have so many reactions to that, Charlie.

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Number one, he does not appreciate how important

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intelligence is to keeping our country safe.

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I would argue that intelligence is more important today

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than it ever has been in American history.

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Let me kind of prove that point to you.

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If you look at all of the national security issues facing

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the President of the United States, you know, from

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international terrorism to the proliferation of weapons of

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mass destruction, to all the things we were just talking

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about in terms of China, Russia, North Korea, Iran,

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human trafficking, narcotics trafficking, you know,

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the list goes on and on and on, right.

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I don't think there's been a time in our history when there's

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been so many national security issues on the front burner

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of a president of the United States.

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So that's kind of point one.

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Point two is, for most of those issues, not all of them,

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but for most of those issues, they are, first and foremost,

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intelligence issues.

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What does that mean?

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That means that if you're the president of the United States,

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that you can't understand those issues, you can't make policy

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on those issues and you can't carry out that policy without

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first-rate intelligence.

259
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I'll give you a very specific example.

260
00:13:01.567 --> 00:13:06.701
We could go to Columbia University and we could grab

261
00:13:06.701 --> 00:13:11.601
ourselves an academic expert in Chinese politics and bring them

262
00:13:11.601 --> 00:13:15.334
in here and they could provide your viewers with real insight

263
00:13:15.334 --> 00:13:20.033
on Chinese politics.

264
00:13:20.033 --> 00:13:22.734
Or we can do the same thing with one of the large banks here in

265
00:13:22.734 --> 00:13:25.400
New York, and bring somebody in and give them real insight

266
00:13:25.400 --> 00:13:28.334
on the state of the European economy.

267
00:13:28.334 --> 00:13:31.100
But if you wanted to give your viewers real insight on

268
00:13:31.100 --> 00:13:36.901
the status of the Iranian nuclear weapons program or

269
00:13:36.901 --> 00:13:41.133
the status of North Korea's ICBM capabilities against the United

270
00:13:41.133 --> 00:13:46.567
States or al Qaeda in Yemen's plans, intentions and

271
00:13:46.567 --> 00:13:48.267
capabilities to conduct terrorist attacks in the

272
00:13:48.267 --> 00:13:53.334
United States, you can't provide insight without intelligence.

273
00:13:53.334 --> 00:13:57.334
So intelligence -- as I said earlier, there's never been --

274
00:13:57.334 --> 00:13:58.601
Let's assume that Donald Trump knows

275
00:13:58.601 --> 00:13:59.400
that principle.

276
00:13:59.400 --> 00:13:59.968
He doesn't.

277
00:13:59.968 --> 00:14:00.968
He clearly doesn't, right.

278
00:14:00.968 --> 00:14:01.901
He clearly doesn't.

279
00:14:01.901 --> 00:14:03.400
Well, he seems to be speaking -- let's assume

280
00:14:03.400 --> 00:14:06.300
that he's speaking to what he thinks is the quality of

281
00:14:06.300 --> 00:14:08.834
intelligence that has been there

282
00:14:08.834 --> 00:14:11.968
and he's questioning whether -- he's questioning whether

283
00:14:11.968 --> 00:14:13.934
the CIA -- I -- I'm not sure what he's questioning.

284
00:14:13.934 --> 00:14:14.467
Yes.

285
00:14:14.467 --> 00:14:15.334
But let's raise the question.

286
00:14:15.334 --> 00:14:17.167
And this is not a discussion about the CIA.

287
00:14:17.167 --> 00:14:18.334
But it's a question about intelligence and

288
00:14:18.334 --> 00:14:19.334
why he might have said this.

289
00:14:19.334 --> 00:14:19.801
Yes.

290
00:14:19.801 --> 00:14:20.767
I assume he said this, in part,

291
00:14:20.767 --> 00:14:21.434
for political reasons.

292
00:14:21.434 --> 00:14:22.067
Right.

293
00:14:22.067 --> 00:14:23.501
But let's assume, in part, that somebody

294
00:14:23.501 --> 00:14:25.901
said to him, look, the CIA didn't see the collapse of

295
00:14:25.901 --> 00:14:27.567
the Russian economy, let's say.

296
00:14:27.567 --> 00:14:30.267
Let's say that says the CIA got it wrong in terms of weapons

297
00:14:30.267 --> 00:14:32.200
of mass destruction in Iraq.

298
00:14:32.200 --> 00:14:35.434
Let's say he -- the CIA got it wrong in terms of what might

299
00:14:35.434 --> 00:14:39.968
happen if, in fact, there wasn't a plan in place to stabilize

300
00:14:39.968 --> 00:14:42.901
Iraq after the collapse of Saddam Hussein.

301
00:14:42.901 --> 00:14:45.767
Let's say that the CIA has not gotten it right.

302
00:14:45.767 --> 00:14:46.534
Let's just say that...

303
00:14:46.534 --> 00:14:47.100
Yes.

304
00:14:47.100 --> 00:14:48.033
-- somebody is telling him this.

305
00:14:48.033 --> 00:14:49.934
Yes.

306
00:14:49.934 --> 00:14:52.601
I would quibble with all of what you said except one thing --

307
00:14:52.601 --> 00:14:53.634
but I get your point, ok?

308
00:14:53.634 --> 00:14:54.434
OK.

309
00:14:54.434 --> 00:14:56.801
So the second -- so he's -- so it sounds to me

310
00:14:56.801 --> 00:14:58.734
like he doesn't understand the importance of intelligence.

311
00:14:58.734 --> 00:14:59.234
Right.

312
00:14:59.234 --> 00:14:59.834
OK?

313
00:14:59.834 --> 00:15:04.734
Two, it sounds to me like he doesn't have a clue about

314
00:15:04.734 --> 00:15:09.567
how effective the United States intelligence community is --

315
00:15:09.567 --> 00:15:11.767
Because we see the things, what they might have

316
00:15:11.767 --> 00:15:14.267
missed, but not the things where they succeeded?

317
00:15:14.267 --> 00:15:15.801
Absolutely right.

318
00:15:15.801 --> 00:15:21.834
So he is, in one sentence, I don't trust U.S. intelligence,

319
00:15:21.834 --> 00:15:29.100
right, he is, in one sentence dismissing the work of thousands

320
00:15:29.100 --> 00:15:36.634
of people, including people who have sacrificed significantly

321
00:15:36.634 --> 00:15:40.901
for this country and who have prevented, by collecting

322
00:15:40.901 --> 00:15:43.767
and analyzing intelligence, who have prevented multiple

323
00:15:43.767 --> 00:15:46.701
terrorist attacks against the United States since 9/11.

324
00:15:46.701 --> 00:15:50.167
He has just dismissed those people, right?

325
00:15:50.167 --> 00:15:52.067
And then the third point I would make is

326
00:15:52.067 --> 00:15:55.133
the leadership point, right?

327
00:15:55.133 --> 00:15:58.100
He wants to be the commander-in-chief.

328
00:15:58.100 --> 00:16:00.334
He wants to lead these people.

329
00:16:00.334 --> 00:16:04.067
Is this the kind of thing you say to a group of people

330
00:16:04.067 --> 00:16:05.801
who you want to lead?

331
00:16:05.801 --> 00:16:07.767
And is this the kind of thing you want to say right before

332
00:16:07.767 --> 00:16:11.334
you walk in the room and meet them for the first time?

333
00:16:11.334 --> 00:16:12.400
Because you, as a leader, want them to go

334
00:16:12.400 --> 00:16:13.634
the extra mile for you.

335
00:16:13.634 --> 00:16:14.834
Absolutely.

336
00:16:14.834 --> 00:16:18.767
You say this to them and, you know, these are -- these are

337
00:16:18.767 --> 00:16:21.267
patriotic, dedicated people, but you say those kind of

338
00:16:21.267 --> 00:16:23.601
things to them and they might not work as hard for you

339
00:16:23.601 --> 00:16:27.000
as they would for somebody who was going to actually lead them

340
00:16:27.000 --> 00:16:28.567
in the right way.

341
00:16:28.567 --> 00:16:31.200
It's very, very dangerous, what he said.

342
00:16:31.200 --> 00:16:33.267
Bob Gates, in an interview that was done about

343
00:16:33.267 --> 00:16:38.534
a month ago, said about Vladimir Putin, of which he said

344
00:16:38.534 --> 00:16:40.467
I look into his eyes and see a cold-blooded killer.

345
00:16:40.467 --> 00:16:40.968
Yes.

346
00:16:40.968 --> 00:16:44.000
And George Bush said he looked into his eyes

347
00:16:44.000 --> 00:16:47.767
and saw something else -- also was in the Situation Room

348
00:16:47.767 --> 00:16:53.601
with you, when President Obama and President Bush made a hard

349
00:16:53.601 --> 00:16:55.701
decision, the guy who was secretary of Defense for

350
00:16:55.701 --> 00:16:57.367
President Bush, you were at the CIA.

351
00:16:57.367 --> 00:17:00.901
Then later, under President Obama, when he was secretary

352
00:17:00.901 --> 00:17:04.000
of Defense, as well, Hillary Clinton was secretary of State,

353
00:17:04.000 --> 00:17:09.534
he said about Putin, he's playing a bad hand well.

354
00:17:09.534 --> 00:17:12.267
Um-hmm.

355
00:17:12.267 --> 00:17:12.901
Do you agree with that?

356
00:17:12.901 --> 00:17:14.234
Yes, yes

357
00:17:14.234 --> 00:17:22.400
And it's not -- you know, he's got an incredibly weak economy.

358
00:17:22.400 --> 00:17:27.734
The prognosis for that economy is bad to worse in terms of

359
00:17:27.734 --> 00:17:31.200
what's happening to their demographics and he's

360
00:17:31.200 --> 00:17:33.234
overinvested in oil and gas, and, you know,

361
00:17:33.234 --> 00:17:35.701
he does have a weak hand.

362
00:17:35.701 --> 00:17:40.767
But for the things he wants, right, for the things he wants

363
00:17:40.767 --> 00:17:44.234
is Russia's seat at the table, Russia is seen as a great power,

364
00:17:44.234 --> 00:17:48.734
constraining the United States, and kind of trying to do

365
00:17:48.734 --> 00:17:51.934
things around the world, himself being seen as a major power,

366
00:17:51.934 --> 00:17:56.133
he is playing a weak hand pretty well.

367
00:17:56.133 --> 00:17:58.734
Interestingly, in playing that hand, he's actually

368
00:17:58.734 --> 00:18:01.467
weakening his hand down the road.

369
00:18:01.467 --> 00:18:02.501
Because if he should be doing a lot of

370
00:18:02.501 --> 00:18:03.534
nation-building at home is what you're saying.

371
00:18:03.534 --> 00:18:04.400
Absolutely.

372
00:18:04.400 --> 00:18:05.467
A lot of nation-building at home.

373
00:18:05.467 --> 00:18:06.801
Absolutely.

374
00:18:06.801 --> 00:18:09.767
Then there's this, today's paper.

375
00:18:09.767 --> 00:18:13.133
"Iranian Air Base Open to Russia: Bomber Strikes Syrian

376
00:18:13.133 --> 00:18:17.934
Rebel Sites; Moscow's Footprint Expands in the Middle East."

377
00:18:17.934 --> 00:18:19.801
Iranian air bases.

378
00:18:19.801 --> 00:18:23.300
So these planes no longer have to fly from Russia, a much

379
00:18:23.300 --> 00:18:27.067
shorter distance now, meaning the payload can be much bigger.

380
00:18:27.067 --> 00:18:28.400
Mm-hmm, a big deal.

381
00:18:28.400 --> 00:18:30.901
Yes, a big deal because you have Iran

382
00:18:30.901 --> 00:18:34.634
and Russia being able to -- they have deepened a relationship

383
00:18:34.634 --> 00:18:37.734
with Iran, including supplying nuclear materials,

384
00:18:37.734 --> 00:18:39.734
which it does in part.

385
00:18:39.734 --> 00:18:40.400
Yes.

386
00:18:40.400 --> 00:18:43.067
So there's -- it's a big deal, right.

387
00:18:43.067 --> 00:18:45.734
It's a big deal for two reasons, one positive for Russia,

388
00:18:45.734 --> 00:18:48.200
one not so positive for Russia.

389
00:18:48.200 --> 00:18:50.968
The positive thing is it's deepening its involvement in

390
00:18:50.968 --> 00:18:53.100
the Middle East, right, which is --

391
00:18:53.100 --> 00:18:54.000
With a huge player.

392
00:18:54.000 --> 00:18:59.033
With a huge player, right.

393
00:18:59.033 --> 00:19:01.033
That's not in our interest.

394
00:19:01.033 --> 00:19:05.968
The downside is that Russia does want to have a relationship

395
00:19:05.968 --> 00:19:09.200
with the Sunni Gulf states.

396
00:19:09.200 --> 00:19:14.601
This is going to get noticed in Riyadh and Abu Dhabi, and --

397
00:19:14.601 --> 00:19:15.334
The Emirates.

398
00:19:15.334 --> 00:19:18.968
-- and Cairo and all of those other places.

399
00:19:18.968 --> 00:19:19.901
Right.

400
00:19:19.901 --> 00:19:22.801
And their big enemy, right, their big enemy,

401
00:19:22.801 --> 00:19:24.734
in their mind, is Iran.

402
00:19:24.734 --> 00:19:28.267
And for Putin to be doing this, it's going to make it

403
00:19:28.267 --> 00:19:30.434
more difficult for Putin to make inroads.

404
00:19:30.434 --> 00:19:32.934
So you're saying short-sighted to be saddling up

405
00:19:32.934 --> 00:19:37.734
to Iran because it will endanger your relationship

406
00:19:37.734 --> 00:19:39.000
with Arab countries.

407
00:19:39.000 --> 00:19:39.567
Yes.

408
00:19:39.567 --> 00:19:45.200
And here's the point I'd make, Charlie, is that a lot of people

409
00:19:45.200 --> 00:19:48.033
see Putin as this great chess player, right,

410
00:19:48.033 --> 00:19:50.334
this great strategic thinker.

411
00:19:50.334 --> 00:19:52.634
No, he's not.

412
00:19:52.634 --> 00:19:54.167
He's a tactician, right.

413
00:19:54.167 --> 00:19:57.667
So he's doing this Iran thing for two reasons.

414
00:19:57.667 --> 00:20:02.200
One is the tactical military advantage he gets, which he --

415
00:20:02.200 --> 00:20:05.667
you talked about, right, shorter distances, bigger payloads, etc.

416
00:20:05.667 --> 00:20:10.534
And he's doing it because it looks -- it makes him look like

417
00:20:10.534 --> 00:20:12.234
even a bigger player, right?

418
00:20:12.234 --> 00:20:15.067
So he's playing to those fundamental goals

419
00:20:15.067 --> 00:20:16.534
he's interested in, right.

420
00:20:16.534 --> 00:20:20.934
But he's not thinking about the larger strategic picture of

421
00:20:20.934 --> 00:20:26.634
siding up with, right, and being partners with a country

422
00:20:26.634 --> 00:20:30.267
in the region that is distrusted by everybody else,

423
00:20:30.267 --> 00:20:32.767
all of the Arab states and to include Turkey.

424
00:20:32.767 --> 00:20:34.634
One of the things that you believe --

425
00:20:34.634 --> 00:20:38.234
I believe you believe -- is that it's much more in

426
00:20:38.234 --> 00:20:40.667
the long-term interests of the United States to have

427
00:20:40.667 --> 00:20:43.100
a strong relationship with the Arab states, that these are not

428
00:20:43.100 --> 00:20:46.501
the same narratives, the Iranian narrative and the Saudi

429
00:20:46.501 --> 00:20:50.567
narrative, that, in fact -- or the Arab states' narrative,

430
00:20:50.567 --> 00:20:55.934
because they are very different in terms of their relationship

431
00:20:55.934 --> 00:20:58.968
and the potential of the relationship.

432
00:20:58.968 --> 00:21:04.534
I'm asking how you see a relationship with Iran and

433
00:21:04.534 --> 00:21:08.267
measure is there any -- and I'm using this word carefully --

434
00:21:08.267 --> 00:21:12.400
equivalency in the relationship to the Arab states?

435
00:21:12.400 --> 00:21:15.300
Because the president, as I understand it, has basically

436
00:21:15.300 --> 00:21:17.968
been saying to the Arab states, look, you've got to talk to

437
00:21:17.968 --> 00:21:21.601
these people, you people have to find common ground, otherwise...

438
00:21:21.601 --> 00:21:22.767
Yes.

439
00:21:22.767 --> 00:21:23.901
-- we will be looking at -- that's what

440
00:21:23.901 --> 00:21:26.400
President Obama's position is, as I understand it.

441
00:21:26.400 --> 00:21:27.167
Yes.

442
00:21:27.167 --> 00:21:28.200
It's a great question.

443
00:21:28.200 --> 00:21:35.667
So first of all, I would say, there is no equivalency between

444
00:21:35.667 --> 00:21:42.267
what the Iranians do and what the Gulf Arabs do.

445
00:21:42.267 --> 00:21:46.501
The Iranians want to dominate the region.

446
00:21:46.501 --> 00:21:50.767
The Gulf Arabs do not.

447
00:21:50.767 --> 00:21:54.901
They don't have an interest in dominating Iran.

448
00:21:54.901 --> 00:21:58.200
They're pushing back against an Iranian attempt

449
00:21:58.200 --> 00:22:00.000
to dominate them.

450
00:22:00.000 --> 00:22:03.033
So there's a fundamental difference between the two.

451
00:22:03.033 --> 00:22:07.701
Having said that, and I think this is a really important

452
00:22:07.701 --> 00:22:14.801
difference -- the revolutionary Iran that wants to dominate

453
00:22:14.801 --> 00:22:21.467
the region, that wants to spread its particular brand of

454
00:22:21.467 --> 00:22:27.534
extremism, it wants to spread its particular brand

455
00:22:27.534 --> 00:22:33.934
of religious governance, that is a Iran that we have to

456
00:22:33.934 --> 00:22:36.834
push back against, I think.

457
00:22:36.834 --> 00:22:38.100
Yes, but, you know, people will argue with you

458
00:22:38.100 --> 00:22:40.067
and you know a lot more about this than I do.

459
00:22:40.067 --> 00:22:42.534
They will argue with you that extremism has come out of

460
00:22:42.534 --> 00:22:49.067
the Sunni branch of Islam rather than the Shia branch of Islam.

461
00:22:49.067 --> 00:22:49.801
Come back to that, OK?

462
00:22:49.801 --> 00:22:51.400
It's a really important point.

463
00:22:51.400 --> 00:22:55.133
So that kind of Iran is unacceptable and we should

464
00:22:55.133 --> 00:22:58.634
all oppose it, right, because they're trying to change

465
00:22:58.634 --> 00:23:00.467
the countries around them.

466
00:23:00.467 --> 00:23:02.067
By supporting Hezbollah, by supporting

467
00:23:02.067 --> 00:23:03.133
Hamas and...

468
00:23:03.133 --> 00:23:04.767
By supporting all these Shia insurgent groups.

469
00:23:04.767 --> 00:23:06.200
By supporting terrorist groups...

470
00:23:06.200 --> 00:23:07.334
Hamas and...

471
00:23:07.334 --> 00:23:08.300
-- all that kind of stuff, right.

472
00:23:08.300 --> 00:23:08.968
And in Yemen, too.

473
00:23:08.968 --> 00:23:10.367
That is unacceptable.

474
00:23:10.367 --> 00:23:13.767
It should be unacceptable to the United States.

475
00:23:13.767 --> 00:23:18.367
What the Arab states are going to have to accept someday --

476
00:23:18.367 --> 00:23:21.934
let's say we can change Iranian behavior so that they no longer

477
00:23:21.934 --> 00:23:23.901
want to dominate the region, right.

478
00:23:23.901 --> 00:23:25.534
Let's say we can get to that point.

479
00:23:25.534 --> 00:23:29.667
Iran is still going to be a powerful regional player because

480
00:23:29.667 --> 00:23:32.801
of its size, because of its economy, because of its Western,

481
00:23:32.801 --> 00:23:36.701
the Western orientation of many of its people.

482
00:23:36.701 --> 00:23:41.133
I mean, many, many Iranians admire the United States.

483
00:23:41.133 --> 00:23:43.267
It is going to be a significant player.

484
00:23:43.267 --> 00:23:45.467
Those Sunni states are going to have to accept

485
00:23:45.467 --> 00:23:47.267
that kind of Iran.

486
00:23:47.267 --> 00:23:48.267
Do they recognize that?

487
00:23:48.267 --> 00:23:49.167
I don't know.

488
00:23:49.167 --> 00:23:50.567
I don't know, right.

489
00:23:50.567 --> 00:23:51.934
But I -- there's a fundamental difference between

490
00:23:51.934 --> 00:23:52.767
the two for me.

491
00:23:52.767 --> 00:23:54.033
OK, back to Wahhabism versus...

492
00:23:54.033 --> 00:23:55.067
Back to the question, back to the question,

493
00:23:55.067 --> 00:23:57.934
a great question.

494
00:23:57.934 --> 00:24:08.133
So modern Islamic extremism began in 1979.

495
00:24:08.133 --> 00:24:12.367
And it began in 1979 in two places.

496
00:24:12.367 --> 00:24:16.834
It began in Tehran with the takeover of the United States

497
00:24:16.834 --> 00:24:20.434
embassy by a bunch of student thugs.

498
00:24:20.434 --> 00:24:24.801
And it also began, at the very same time, in Saudi Arabia,

499
00:24:24.801 --> 00:24:27.567
with the takeover of the Grand Mosque

500
00:24:27.567 --> 00:24:30.667
by a bunch of terrorists.

501
00:24:30.667 --> 00:24:34.100
And from a extremist point of view,

502
00:24:34.100 --> 00:24:39.434
both of those were successful.

503
00:24:39.434 --> 00:24:44.567
So in Iran, the result was the strengthening of the ayatollah

504
00:24:44.567 --> 00:24:50.400
at the expense of the -- the new secular government, right,

505
00:24:50.400 --> 00:24:54.968
and actually the essential overthrow of that secular

506
00:24:54.968 --> 00:25:00.601
government by the ayatollah and the putting in place of

507
00:25:00.601 --> 00:25:05.200
the system that still exists there where the vast majority,

508
00:25:05.200 --> 00:25:07.100
not all, but the vast majority of the power rests

509
00:25:07.100 --> 00:25:08.934
with the supreme leader, right.

510
00:25:08.934 --> 00:25:12.400
That takeover of that embassy created the political dynamic

511
00:25:12.400 --> 00:25:16.567
in Tehran that allowed the ayatollah to grab

512
00:25:16.567 --> 00:25:18.033
the power he did.

513
00:25:18.033 --> 00:25:19.701
A big win for the extremists.

514
00:25:19.701 --> 00:25:23.367
The same thing at the Grand Mosque.

515
00:25:23.367 --> 00:25:28.300
So the Saudi government wanted to go in and clear out

516
00:25:28.300 --> 00:25:29.300
the Grand Mosque.

517
00:25:29.300 --> 00:25:32.701
But in order to do that, they needed a religious fatwa.

518
00:25:32.701 --> 00:25:36.634
They needed an order from the clerics to be able to go in

519
00:25:36.634 --> 00:25:41.267
and kill people inside the Grand Mosque.

520
00:25:41.267 --> 00:25:44.033
And what were these terrorists --

521
00:25:44.033 --> 00:25:46.400
why did these terrorists do this?

522
00:25:46.400 --> 00:25:49.434
These terrorists did this because they thought that

523
00:25:49.434 --> 00:25:52.968
Saudi Arabia was modernizing too quickly.

524
00:25:52.968 --> 00:25:54.133
That's why they did this.

525
00:25:54.133 --> 00:25:56.234
And guess who agreed with them?

526
00:25:56.234 --> 00:25:58.000
The clerics.

527
00:25:58.000 --> 00:26:00.901
So when the Saudi government came to the clerics and said

528
00:26:00.901 --> 00:26:05.601
we need a fatwa to go in and clear out these terrorists,

529
00:26:05.601 --> 00:26:09.767
the clerics said we'll give you your fatwa, but you have to

530
00:26:09.767 --> 00:26:13.434
slow down the modernization, you have to go backwards...

531
00:26:13.434 --> 00:26:15.534
And those who argued that have been hostage

532
00:26:15.534 --> 00:26:16.834
to the clerics since then.

533
00:26:16.834 --> 00:26:18.000
And they have been hostage to

534
00:26:18.000 --> 00:26:20.267
those fundamentalist clerics since then.

535
00:26:20.267 --> 00:26:22.200
They've allowed them to promote values that...

536
00:26:22.200 --> 00:26:23.367
Right.

537
00:26:23.367 --> 00:26:27.667
Now, I'll tell you that what you just said is absolutely true.

538
00:26:27.667 --> 00:26:33.334
And so you have both of those dynamics.

539
00:26:33.334 --> 00:26:37.601
What's happening in Saudi Arabia is you have a young leader

540
00:26:37.601 --> 00:26:43.267
in Mohammad bin Salman, who I have met and who I am very

541
00:26:43.267 --> 00:26:49.901
impressed by, that understands that Saudi Arabia has to change.

542
00:26:49.901 --> 00:26:51.367
It has to change in several ways in terms of

543
00:26:51.367 --> 00:26:54.501
it -- of the -- what kind of state it is and secondly,

544
00:26:54.501 --> 00:26:56.901
what kind of economic base it has.

545
00:26:56.901 --> 00:26:57.701
Exactly.

546
00:26:57.701 --> 00:27:01.701
And he's already taken steps that nobody thought possible,

547
00:27:01.701 --> 00:27:09.300
Charlie, including no longer allowing the religious police

548
00:27:09.300 --> 00:27:10.901
to arrest people.

549
00:27:10.901 --> 00:27:11.934
Huge.

550
00:27:11.934 --> 00:27:13.300
Well, maybe he'd like to come sit at this table

551
00:27:13.300 --> 00:27:14.767
and talk to the American people.

552
00:27:14.767 --> 00:27:16.901
That would be great if he did that.

553
00:27:16.901 --> 00:27:18.267
Now let's talk about the interview

554
00:27:18.267 --> 00:27:19.901
you did with me here.

555
00:27:19.901 --> 00:27:21.434
Yes.

556
00:27:21.434 --> 00:27:25.100
Tell me what you intended to say so we understand

557
00:27:25.100 --> 00:27:28.400
it, because some people interpreted it that you wanted

558
00:27:28.400 --> 00:27:33.167
to do three things, that you wanted to see Iranians and

559
00:27:33.167 --> 00:27:39.367
Russians punished, so that they would be more willing to engage

560
00:27:39.367 --> 00:27:44.968
in peace talks to stop the destruction of a state.

561
00:27:44.968 --> 00:27:46.968
And that was the only way to do it, if they felt some sense

562
00:27:46.968 --> 00:27:48.501
of...of pressure.

563
00:27:48.501 --> 00:27:49.100
Yes.

564
00:27:49.100 --> 00:27:52.000
And you felt the same thing about Assad,

565
00:27:52.000 --> 00:27:57.000
that he had to feel some fear about his own existence

566
00:27:57.000 --> 00:28:03.601
in order to agree to some kind of transition.

567
00:28:03.601 --> 00:28:06.734
Tell me how you see Syria and what you meant to say --

568
00:28:06.734 --> 00:28:07.501
Yes, yes.

569
00:28:07.501 --> 00:28:08.801
-- and what you've said, because as a result

570
00:28:08.801 --> 00:28:11.000
of that, some people who might not have seen the interview

571
00:28:11.000 --> 00:28:13.701
said, you know, you were in bed with neo-cons...

572
00:28:13.701 --> 00:28:14.334
Yes.

573
00:28:14.334 --> 00:28:15.334
They called me a neo-con.

574
00:28:15.334 --> 00:28:16.267
-- and that you were a neo-con.

575
00:28:16.267 --> 00:28:17.334
They called me a warmonger.

576
00:28:17.334 --> 00:28:19.033
They said you were a warmonger --

577
00:28:19.033 --> 00:28:19.934
They called me Trumpian.

578
00:28:19.934 --> 00:28:20.901
-- that you were Trumpian.

579
00:28:20.901 --> 00:28:22.300
How about that?

580
00:28:22.300 --> 00:28:24.300
So all of these things came down on top of you.

581
00:28:24.300 --> 00:28:25.033
Yes.

582
00:28:25.033 --> 00:28:27.701
And perhaps because you did not speak

583
00:28:27.701 --> 00:28:29.901
as precisely as you should have?

584
00:28:29.901 --> 00:28:30.534
Yes.

585
00:28:30.534 --> 00:28:31.734
So, um...

586
00:28:31.734 --> 00:28:32.968
Or that I didn't ask the right questions.

587
00:28:32.968 --> 00:28:34.734
No, no, no, you always ask the right questions.

588
00:28:34.734 --> 00:28:39.000
Um, so, you know, one of the things that you're taught

589
00:28:39.000 --> 00:28:44.100
as a young analyst at CIA is precision of language.

590
00:28:44.100 --> 00:28:45.400
Yes.

591
00:28:45.400 --> 00:28:48.033
Clarity of message, right.

592
00:28:48.033 --> 00:28:53.767
It's beaten into you.

593
00:28:53.767 --> 00:28:58.100
You know, sometimes you don't do what you were taught.

594
00:28:58.100 --> 00:29:03.801
And so I don't think I was as clear with you and your viewers

595
00:29:03.801 --> 00:29:05.033
as I should have been.

596
00:29:05.033 --> 00:29:10.334
So let me try to make this clear.

597
00:29:10.334 --> 00:29:15.601
The Syrian civil war has to end.

598
00:29:15.601 --> 00:29:21.901
And the reason it has to end is because it is feeding extremism

599
00:29:21.901 --> 00:29:25.467
in Iraq and Syria.

600
00:29:25.467 --> 00:29:29.968
Even if we get our arms around ISIS and squeeze ISIS down

601
00:29:29.968 --> 00:29:36.300
and down and down and down, the civil war will continue

602
00:29:36.300 --> 00:29:38.067
to breed extremism.

603
00:29:38.067 --> 00:29:43.300
ISIS will go away and some other group will replace it.

604
00:29:43.300 --> 00:29:46.334
The Syrian civil war needs to end, OK.

605
00:29:46.334 --> 00:29:51.801
In my view, there is not a military solution to that.

606
00:29:51.801 --> 00:29:55.667
And the reason there's not a military solution to that is

607
00:29:55.667 --> 00:29:59.267
because a military solution would end up with

608
00:29:59.267 --> 00:30:04.100
the destruction of the Syrian military, the Syrian security

609
00:30:04.100 --> 00:30:07.000
services, the Syrian intelligence services,

610
00:30:07.000 --> 00:30:10.133
et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, Syrian police.

611
00:30:10.133 --> 00:30:13.934
And if you destroy all of those in an attempt to end

612
00:30:13.934 --> 00:30:20.033
the civil war, you are left with a complete vacuum,

613
00:30:20.033 --> 00:30:23.000
security vacuum, stability vacuum.

614
00:30:23.000 --> 00:30:25.667
You end up with Libya.

615
00:30:25.667 --> 00:30:26.634
Or Iraq.

616
00:30:26.634 --> 00:30:27.701
Or Iraq, right.

617
00:30:27.701 --> 00:30:28.267
Iraq.

618
00:30:28.267 --> 00:30:29.901
After the fall of Saddam.

619
00:30:29.901 --> 00:30:31.834
After the de-Baathification decision.

620
00:30:31.834 --> 00:30:32.400
Right.

621
00:30:32.400 --> 00:30:33.000
Which is --

622
00:30:33.000 --> 00:30:33.501
Right.

623
00:30:33.501 --> 00:30:35.934
-- which is what caused the whole thing.

624
00:30:35.934 --> 00:30:38.000
So you don't want to do that.

625
00:30:38.000 --> 00:30:40.934
So there's not a military solution to this.

626
00:30:40.934 --> 00:30:43.934
There is only a political solution to this.

627
00:30:43.934 --> 00:30:48.901
And that political solution is, in my view, a transition of

628
00:30:48.901 --> 00:30:56.767
power from Assad to a transitional government

629
00:30:56.767 --> 00:31:01.634
that represents all of the Syrian people.

630
00:31:01.634 --> 00:31:07.701
That is only going to happen if Assad wants it to happen,

631
00:31:07.701 --> 00:31:12.400
if Russia wants it to happen and if Iran wants it to happen.

632
00:31:12.400 --> 00:31:19.701
So what we need to do is we need to increase our leverage over

633
00:31:19.701 --> 00:31:25.033
those three people and groups, those three people and countries

634
00:31:25.033 --> 00:31:28.167
in order to get them more interested in having

635
00:31:28.167 --> 00:31:32.667
a conversation about a transition to a new government.

636
00:31:32.667 --> 00:31:34.200
That's exactly what the 51 diplomats...

637
00:31:34.200 --> 00:31:36.467
That's exactly what the 51 diplomats said.

638
00:31:36.467 --> 00:31:37.300
-- said in their letter.

639
00:31:37.300 --> 00:31:38.634
Right, right.

640
00:31:38.634 --> 00:31:44.334
And, you know, sometimes you use military force

641
00:31:44.334 --> 00:31:46.234
for military ends.

642
00:31:46.234 --> 00:31:52.834
Sometimes you use military force to give you political leverage.

643
00:31:52.834 --> 00:31:55.567
And one of the reasons to be involved in Syria, which is

644
00:31:55.567 --> 00:31:59.067
what Vladimir Putin is now discovering, is when you get

645
00:31:59.067 --> 00:32:02.000
involved militarily, all of a sudden you're a player in

646
00:32:02.000 --> 00:32:06.000
how the game gets discussed around the table, right.

647
00:32:06.000 --> 00:32:09.801
So what I tried to say was, look, we need to find some ways

648
00:32:09.801 --> 00:32:15.601
to put some pressure on Assad, to put some pressure on Russia,

649
00:32:15.601 --> 00:32:17.734
and to put some pressure on Iran.

650
00:32:17.734 --> 00:32:23.934
Now, with regard to Russia and Iran, what I said --

651
00:32:23.934 --> 00:32:28.934
what I wanted to say was, look, the moderate opposition which

652
00:32:28.934 --> 00:32:31.667
the United States is supporting -- and everybody knows that,

653
00:32:31.667 --> 00:32:35.734
right -- the moderate opposition is already fighting the Syrian

654
00:32:35.734 --> 00:32:39.534
government and they're already fighting Russians and Iranians

655
00:32:39.534 --> 00:32:41.767
who are fighting with...

656
00:32:41.767 --> 00:32:43.200
And, in fact, that's who those bombers

657
00:32:43.200 --> 00:32:46.100
coming from Iran are bombing in Syria...

658
00:32:46.100 --> 00:32:46.667
Exactly, right.

659
00:32:46.667 --> 00:32:47.567
-- the moderate opposition.

660
00:32:47.567 --> 00:32:51.000
And they are making the battle against Assad in Aleppo for the

661
00:32:51.000 --> 00:32:54.334
future of Aleppo, where there's so much of a human catastrophe.

662
00:32:54.334 --> 00:32:54.934
Right.

663
00:32:54.934 --> 00:32:57.801
So one of the wars that's going on, right, is the Syrian

664
00:32:57.801 --> 00:33:03.934
military, supported by Russia and the Iranians are fighting

665
00:33:03.934 --> 00:33:04.734
the moderate opposition.

666
00:33:04.734 --> 00:33:08.601
And the moderate opposition is already killing --

667
00:33:08.601 --> 00:33:11.801
is already killing Iranians and Syrians.

668
00:33:11.801 --> 00:33:16.767
What I said is that's a good -- that's an OK thing, right,

669
00:33:16.767 --> 00:33:21.367
because it puts pressure on Iran and Russia to try to see

670
00:33:21.367 --> 00:33:25.167
some value in ending this thing politically.

671
00:33:25.167 --> 00:33:27.901
And what I said is we should encourage -- what I wanted

672
00:33:27.901 --> 00:33:30.567
to say was that we should encourage the moderate

673
00:33:30.567 --> 00:33:33.701
opposition to continue to do that, and perhaps even get --

674
00:33:33.701 --> 00:33:34.901
You were not suggesting the United States

675
00:33:34.901 --> 00:33:35.634
should do that.

676
00:33:35.634 --> 00:33:36.167
I was not...

677
00:33:36.167 --> 00:33:36.968
You were suggesting...

678
00:33:36.968 --> 00:33:37.534
-- suggesting...

679
00:33:37.534 --> 00:33:38.801
-- that the moderate forces on the ground...

680
00:33:38.801 --> 00:33:41.467
And I think I came across as saying

681
00:33:41.467 --> 00:33:43.434
U.S. Special Forces should go in there and start killing

682
00:33:43.434 --> 00:33:44.467
Iranians and Russians.

683
00:33:44.467 --> 00:33:45.300
I did not mean that.

684
00:33:45.300 --> 00:33:46.200
Um-hmm.

685
00:33:46.200 --> 00:33:48.067
So that's Russia and Iran.

686
00:33:48.067 --> 00:33:50.434
Now, Assad.

687
00:33:50.434 --> 00:33:53.767
How do you put some pressure on Assad, right?

688
00:33:53.767 --> 00:34:01.534
And here I did argue, Charlie, that the U.S. military itself

689
00:34:01.534 --> 00:34:03.234
should take some action.

690
00:34:03.234 --> 00:34:10.901
And what I would see as valuable is limited, very, very, very

691
00:34:10.901 --> 00:34:15.667
limited U.S. air strikes against those assets that are extremely

692
00:34:15.667 --> 00:34:18.367
important to Assad personally.

693
00:34:18.367 --> 00:34:22.100
So in the middle of the night, you destroy one of his offices.

694
00:34:22.100 --> 00:34:23.234
You don't kill anybody, right.

695
00:34:23.234 --> 00:34:24.634
Zero collateral.

696
00:34:24.634 --> 00:34:26.634
You do this with zero collateral, the same rules of

697
00:34:26.634 --> 00:34:28.901
engagement that we use against terrorists...

698
00:34:28.901 --> 00:34:31.000
But often, zero collateral is hard to do.

699
00:34:31.000 --> 00:34:32.400
It's hard to do, but you go into it

700
00:34:32.400 --> 00:34:34.234
with that goal, right.

701
00:34:34.234 --> 00:34:35.767
That's what's important.

702
00:34:35.767 --> 00:34:37.834
You go into it with that goal and you take that seriously

703
00:34:37.834 --> 00:34:42.734
when you're doing your targeting.

704
00:34:42.734 --> 00:34:45.267
You take out his presidential aircraft, his presidential

705
00:34:45.267 --> 00:34:48.834
helicopters in the middle of the night, right, just to send him

706
00:34:48.834 --> 00:34:53.801
a message and to get his attention that maybe your days

707
00:34:53.801 --> 00:34:56.534
are numbered here, right, just to put some pressure on him

708
00:34:56.534 --> 00:34:59.467
to think about, you know, maybe I need to think about

709
00:34:59.467 --> 00:35:01.100
a way out of this.

710
00:35:01.100 --> 00:35:01.834
He could...

711
00:35:01.834 --> 00:35:03.901
Now, these -- these issues that I'm talking

712
00:35:03.901 --> 00:35:09.901
about here, right, are talked about in the Sit Room.

713
00:35:09.901 --> 00:35:12.167
They're talked about in national security circles

714
00:35:12.167 --> 00:35:14.300
all the time, right?

715
00:35:14.300 --> 00:35:16.667
These are debates that people have.

716
00:35:16.667 --> 00:35:18.901
And I certainly understand that there's people on the other side

717
00:35:18.901 --> 00:35:23.200
of the argument from me, right, but I wasn't talking about

718
00:35:23.200 --> 00:35:25.734
the U.S. starting a major war with Iran and Russia,

719
00:35:25.734 --> 00:35:27.467
which is I think the way people took --

720
00:35:27.467 --> 00:35:28.434
What all the rest of that contains.

721
00:35:28.434 --> 00:35:29.200
What all the rest of that --

722
00:35:29.200 --> 00:35:30.400
-- and what --

723
00:35:30.400 --> 00:35:31.167
Right.

724
00:35:31.167 --> 00:35:32.367
This is "The Washington Post" editorial today

725
00:35:32.367 --> 00:35:36.501
about Syria, called, "Syria's Stalingrad."

726
00:35:36.501 --> 00:35:39.501
As Aleppo was destroyed, the United States responds --

727
00:35:39.501 --> 00:35:43.334
deplore, wring hands, repeat.

728
00:35:43.334 --> 00:35:47.234
"The editorial in "The Washington Post" today.

729
00:35:47.234 --> 00:35:49.334
"The burden of responsibility for the crimes of the Syrian

730
00:35:49.334 --> 00:35:53.067
government and its Russian ally must therefore be shared by

731
00:35:53.067 --> 00:35:56.400
those, including the United States,

732
00:35:56.400 --> 00:36:00.334
who allowed them to continue."

733
00:36:00.334 --> 00:36:02.100
A point that I have made with the President of the United

734
00:36:02.100 --> 00:36:05.434
States about, you know, the judgment of the history."

735
00:36:05.434 --> 00:36:05.901
Right.

736
00:36:05.901 --> 00:36:08.534
Has this administration failed to do

737
00:36:08.534 --> 00:36:14.467
enough at several critical junctures to have perhaps

738
00:36:14.467 --> 00:36:17.200
made this war come to an end?

739
00:36:17.200 --> 00:36:18.400
So we've talked around this table

740
00:36:18.400 --> 00:36:20.501
a number of times about --

741
00:36:20.501 --> 00:36:22.567
This is a closure about what has been

742
00:36:22.567 --> 00:36:23.901
done, what has to be done.

743
00:36:23.901 --> 00:36:25.000
Right.

744
00:36:25.000 --> 00:36:25.834
Um, so I...

745
00:36:25.834 --> 00:36:27.133
And what Hillary Clinton supports.

746
00:36:27.133 --> 00:36:27.701
Yes.

747
00:36:27.701 --> 00:36:30.601
So I do think we've missed some opportunities.

748
00:36:30.601 --> 00:36:34.767
Now, I cannot guarantee you had -- had we provided significant

749
00:36:34.767 --> 00:36:39.801
assistance to the moderate opposition, in the fall of 2012,

750
00:36:39.801 --> 00:36:43.000
when Assad was a little shaky, that it would have resulted in

751
00:36:43.000 --> 00:36:44.968
his fall, because maybe the Iranians just would have

752
00:36:44.968 --> 00:36:46.100
upped the ante, right?

753
00:36:46.100 --> 00:36:46.601
Right.

754
00:36:46.601 --> 00:36:48.334
So I can't guarantee that.

755
00:36:48.334 --> 00:36:51.834
But we didn't try.

756
00:36:51.834 --> 00:36:58.801
The President's decision not to cross the red line of, you know,

757
00:36:58.801 --> 00:37:01.434
he said if the Syrians use chemical weapons,

758
00:37:01.434 --> 00:37:03.000
that will be a red line.

759
00:37:03.000 --> 00:37:07.567
His decision not to follow through on that, it was

760
00:37:07.567 --> 00:37:14.534
very interesting, right, that Assad moved very quickly

761
00:37:14.534 --> 00:37:17.701
to give up his chemical weapons.

762
00:37:17.701 --> 00:37:18.634
Why?

763
00:37:18.634 --> 00:37:23.300
Because he knew that if the United States acted, if the

764
00:37:23.300 --> 00:37:26.334
United States took a number of airstrikes against his military

765
00:37:26.334 --> 00:37:28.634
facilities where there were chemical weapons,

766
00:37:28.634 --> 00:37:30.601
that it would put his rule at risk.

767
00:37:30.601 --> 00:37:33.033
That's why he was willing to get rid of his chemical weapons,

768
00:37:33.033 --> 00:37:36.767
because he was frightened about what such an air strike

769
00:37:36.767 --> 00:37:39.000
would do to him politically.

770
00:37:39.000 --> 00:37:41.567
So I think we missed another opportunity there.

771
00:37:41.567 --> 00:37:42.634
Now the president would argue that

772
00:37:42.634 --> 00:37:45.234
on that case -- and I don't want to go -- we've said this before

773
00:37:45.234 --> 00:37:47.968
at this table, we didn't know what would follow Assad

774
00:37:47.968 --> 00:37:52.000
and that's a huge bet.

775
00:37:52.000 --> 00:37:53.601
Yes, he's right about that.

776
00:37:53.601 --> 00:37:54.534
He's absolutely right about that.

777
00:37:54.534 --> 00:37:58.501
And it's my argument, right, about, you know,

778
00:37:58.501 --> 00:38:00.167
you've got to have that transition --

779
00:38:00.167 --> 00:38:01.400
You need in place, a structure.

780
00:38:01.400 --> 00:38:02.767
You need in place a structure.

781
00:38:02.767 --> 00:38:06.200
But at that time, right, you know, back in the fall of 2012,

782
00:38:06.200 --> 00:38:12.167
back in 2013, the Syrian Army, the Syrian security services

783
00:38:12.167 --> 00:38:16.033
were much, much stronger than they were today, right.

784
00:38:16.033 --> 00:38:19.133
And there was less risk at them -- of them fracturing

785
00:38:19.133 --> 00:38:22.234
the way they had in Libya or the way they had in Iraq.

786
00:38:22.234 --> 00:38:24.400
So I think it was a different story.

787
00:38:24.400 --> 00:38:26.133
Well, but that's looking backwards, right?

788
00:38:26.133 --> 00:38:27.467
Let's look forward.

789
00:38:27.467 --> 00:38:31.801
I think "The Washington Post" op-ed today, which is very

790
00:38:31.801 --> 00:38:35.000
interesting, you know, it's one of the reasons why

791
00:38:35.000 --> 00:38:38.934
Secretary Clinton, last fall, came out and said, you know,

792
00:38:38.934 --> 00:38:41.801
it's really time for a no-fly zone.

793
00:38:41.801 --> 00:38:44.934
It's really time for a no-fly zone to stop the kind of

794
00:38:44.934 --> 00:38:48.133
activity that the Syrian military is doing in Aleppo.

795
00:38:48.133 --> 00:38:50.968
And it's, of course --

796
00:38:50.968 --> 00:38:52.100
Barrel bombs, and some are saying

797
00:38:52.100 --> 00:38:53.601
chlorine gas and --

798
00:38:53.601 --> 00:38:56.033
Chlorine gas, right, etc., etc.

799
00:38:56.033 --> 00:39:00.734
And she's saying it, right, not only to protect the lives of

800
00:39:00.734 --> 00:39:03.434
those innocent people, but even more importantly, right, because

801
00:39:03.434 --> 00:39:09.334
like I said earlier, that Syrian civil war is causing national

802
00:39:09.334 --> 00:39:13.100
security issues for the United States of America, right.

803
00:39:13.100 --> 00:39:15.801
As long as it exists, because I said this earlier, as long as

804
00:39:15.801 --> 00:39:20.267
it exists, extremism will flourish in the Middle East,

805
00:39:20.267 --> 00:39:25.000
in Syria and Iraq, and the risk to the United States and those

806
00:39:25.000 --> 00:39:28.901
extremists reaching out and attacking us and our interests

807
00:39:28.901 --> 00:39:29.934
is going to remain.

808
00:39:29.934 --> 00:39:33.901
So this is -- what's happening in Aleppo is a national security

809
00:39:33.901 --> 00:39:35.367
issue for the United States of America.

810
00:39:35.367 --> 00:39:37.067
And that's why she took the position she took.

811
00:39:37.067 --> 00:39:39.033
The last surviving physicians in

812
00:39:39.033 --> 00:39:41.000
the rebel head -- this is the editorial.

813
00:39:41.000 --> 00:39:43.033
In this preface that they now read before.

814
00:39:43.033 --> 00:39:46.467
"The last surviving physicians in the rebel-held half of Aleppo

815
00:39:46.467 --> 00:39:48.667
a few days ago begged President Obama to help.

816
00:39:48.667 --> 00:39:51.901
The world has stood by and remarked how complicated Syria

817
00:39:51.901 --> 00:39:54.734
is while doing little to protect us," they wrote.

818
00:39:54.734 --> 00:39:56.601
Then they continued to say "the burden of responsibility,

819
00:39:56.601 --> 00:40:00.834
includes the United States and those who allow these things

820
00:40:00.834 --> 00:40:02.534
to continue."

821
00:40:02.534 --> 00:40:07.534
It continues to be, you know, a huge problem for the world

822
00:40:07.534 --> 00:40:11.901
to deal with it, because we are looking at the flow of refugees

823
00:40:11.901 --> 00:40:13.100
into Europe.

824
00:40:13.100 --> 00:40:13.701
Right.

825
00:40:13.701 --> 00:40:15.534
And all that that suggests.

826
00:40:15.534 --> 00:40:15.968
Right.

827
00:40:15.968 --> 00:40:16.534
And Charlie --

828
00:40:16.534 --> 00:40:18.000
And the difficulty it does in terms of

829
00:40:18.000 --> 00:40:20.400
the rise of populist politics.

830
00:40:20.400 --> 00:40:22.734
And Charlie, I listened very closely to

831
00:40:22.734 --> 00:40:27.000
Donald Trump's speech on ISIS, you know, hoping to hear

832
00:40:27.000 --> 00:40:28.767
something interesting.

833
00:40:28.767 --> 00:40:31.834
And in terms of, you know, what to do about it,

834
00:40:31.834 --> 00:40:33.801
I heard two things.

835
00:40:33.801 --> 00:40:36.801
One is a bunch of stuff that we're already doing.

836
00:40:36.801 --> 00:40:41.434
You know, for example, you know, getting our arms around

837
00:40:41.434 --> 00:40:44.200
their finances, squeezing their finances or squeezing their

838
00:40:44.200 --> 00:40:46.133
media operations, right.

839
00:40:46.133 --> 00:40:48.200
We're trying to do all of those things.

840
00:40:48.200 --> 00:40:52.133
You know, he also said we should -- you know, it's important to

841
00:40:52.133 --> 00:40:54.968
kill terrorists, but we should -- it's even more important to

842
00:40:54.968 --> 00:40:58.200
capture them, right, so you can actually learn what they think.

843
00:40:58.200 --> 00:41:01.300
Well, that is the policy of the Obama administration, right,

844
00:41:01.300 --> 00:41:03.601
capture is preferred to kill.

845
00:41:03.601 --> 00:41:06.334
So in much of what he said, there wasn't anything new.

846
00:41:06.334 --> 00:41:08.100
I was disappointed by that.

847
00:41:08.100 --> 00:41:11.634
And then those things that were new, those things that were new

848
00:41:11.634 --> 00:41:15.100
are unworkable, right.

849
00:41:15.100 --> 00:41:17.534
When somebody wants a visa or when somebody wants to enter

850
00:41:17.534 --> 00:41:20.133
the United States and you whip out a questionnaire that says,

851
00:41:20.133 --> 00:41:20.767
you know...

852
00:41:20.767 --> 00:41:22.067
What he calls extreme vetting.

853
00:41:22.067 --> 00:41:23.601
Yes, are you a terrorist, you know?

854
00:41:23.601 --> 00:41:25.067
Well, if you're a terrorist, you're not going to answer that

855
00:41:25.067 --> 00:41:26.400
question in a positive way, right?

856
00:41:26.400 --> 00:41:29.000
I mean you're -- and so it's ridiculous.

857
00:41:29.000 --> 00:41:30.234
It doesn't work.

858
00:41:30.234 --> 00:41:38.133
I think the most -- there were two extraordinarily troubling

859
00:41:38.133 --> 00:41:42.334
things for me in his speech.

860
00:41:42.334 --> 00:41:47.067
One was the line that, you know, we shouldn't have gone into

861
00:41:47.067 --> 00:41:50.234
Iraq, but since we did, we should have grabbed the oil.

862
00:41:50.234 --> 00:41:52.367
Yes.

863
00:41:52.367 --> 00:41:56.767
To the victor go the spoils of war.

864
00:41:56.767 --> 00:42:02.701
That -- those two statements by themselves today are damaging

865
00:42:02.701 --> 00:42:05.133
to the national security of the United States.

866
00:42:05.133 --> 00:42:06.067
Because?

867
00:42:06.067 --> 00:42:10.601
Because they feed every fear and every conspiracy

868
00:42:10.601 --> 00:42:13.234
theory that everybody in the world has about the United

869
00:42:13.234 --> 00:42:17.667
States, that those -- that that's exactly the way we think

870
00:42:17.667 --> 00:42:19.334
and now somebody has finally said it.

871
00:42:19.334 --> 00:42:20.367
For a long time, it was believed that

872
00:42:20.367 --> 00:42:23.067
our Middle East policy was guided by one thing,

873
00:42:23.067 --> 00:42:25.267
our desire and our need for fossil fuel.

874
00:42:25.267 --> 00:42:26.067
Exactly.

875
00:42:26.067 --> 00:42:32.100
And boy, did he say to them, you are absolutely right.

876
00:42:32.100 --> 00:42:40.834
The other thing I found, I found terribly discouraging is,

877
00:42:40.834 --> 00:42:46.901
you know, his talking about having thought tests, right.

878
00:42:46.901 --> 00:42:49.801
You ask somebody whether they believe in Sharia law

879
00:42:49.801 --> 00:42:52.767
and if they do, good-bye.

880
00:42:52.767 --> 00:42:57.000
His talk about having neighbors spying on neighbors, right.

881
00:42:57.000 --> 00:43:01.400
Look, I'm OK if a neighbor sees somebody building a bomb

882
00:43:01.400 --> 00:43:04.801
and calls the FBI or a neighbor sees somebody with a bunch

883
00:43:04.801 --> 00:43:06.234
of weapons and calls the FBI.

884
00:43:06.234 --> 00:43:07.501
I'm OK with that.

885
00:43:07.501 --> 00:43:11.968
But if somebody is talking about their admiration for Sharia law

886
00:43:11.968 --> 00:43:14.634
and somebody calls the FBI, I'm not OK with that, right.

887
00:43:14.634 --> 00:43:16.901
People have First Amendment rights here.

888
00:43:16.901 --> 00:43:22.801
You know, his stopping his limiting of immigration and

889
00:43:22.801 --> 00:43:27.434
his stopping of immigration, his talk about viciously, viciously

890
00:43:27.434 --> 00:43:31.000
cutting out, right, extremists from in our midst, right,

891
00:43:31.000 --> 00:43:36.901
it sounds to me like the terrorists have won.

892
00:43:36.901 --> 00:43:39.000
The terrorists have accomplished in the United States

893
00:43:39.000 --> 00:43:41.167
exactly what they wanted to accomplish.

894
00:43:41.167 --> 00:43:43.567
And to your credit and to others and you

895
00:43:43.567 --> 00:43:47.901
happened to have signed onto this and said this -- you know,

896
00:43:47.901 --> 00:43:51.234
we also have a huge challenge to figure out what it is

897
00:43:51.234 --> 00:43:53.133
that is appealing to young people...

898
00:43:53.133 --> 00:43:55.167
Right.

899
00:43:55.167 --> 00:44:00.367
-- to be inspired by the kinds of

900
00:44:00.367 --> 00:44:06.000
rhetoric that comes from fundamental extremism,

901
00:44:06.000 --> 00:44:11.300
you know, and offer from within those countries,

902
00:44:11.300 --> 00:44:17.834
the alternative narrative and the absurdity...

903
00:44:17.834 --> 00:44:18.901
Yes, and I --

904
00:44:18.901 --> 00:44:21.901
-- of the narrative, which somehow makes

905
00:44:21.901 --> 00:44:25.801
young people, who may be in a very bad place because of rulers

906
00:44:25.801 --> 00:44:29.834
who are coming out of -- who are oligarchs -- who are --

907
00:44:29.834 --> 00:44:34.167
come from dictators and they see no future...

908
00:44:34.167 --> 00:44:34.734
Right.

909
00:44:34.734 --> 00:44:35.734
-- and they see nobody to join

910
00:44:35.734 --> 00:44:37.601
and so therefore they do it.

911
00:44:37.601 --> 00:44:38.801
Yes, and...

912
00:44:38.801 --> 00:44:41.033
Because they're influenced by people who have

913
00:44:41.033 --> 00:44:47.367
some capacity to influence their sense of

914
00:44:47.367 --> 00:44:50.133
their religious place.

915
00:44:50.133 --> 00:44:51.534
So, you know, we've talked about this around

916
00:44:51.534 --> 00:44:55.167
this table, right, this difference between the near war.

917
00:44:55.167 --> 00:44:56.033
Right.

918
00:44:56.033 --> 00:44:58.334
Right, the guys who are already terrorists who

919
00:44:58.334 --> 00:45:00.100
are trying to kill us, you've got to stop them, right?

920
00:45:00.100 --> 00:45:04.400
There's only one way to do that, kill them or capture them.

921
00:45:04.400 --> 00:45:08.000
And then there's the long war -- how do you stop

922
00:45:08.000 --> 00:45:11.100
the creation of them in the first place, right?

923
00:45:11.100 --> 00:45:14.934
It's extraordinarily complicated.

924
00:45:14.934 --> 00:45:19.567
One of the ways I break it down, Charlie, is to say the leaders

925
00:45:19.567 --> 00:45:24.467
of the groups, so the leaders of al Qaeda, the leaders of ISIS,

926
00:45:24.467 --> 00:45:28.734
this really is about a twisted interpretation

927
00:45:28.734 --> 00:45:30.934
of the teachings of the Prophet.

928
00:45:30.934 --> 00:45:33.734
It is really about a belief that the modern world

929
00:45:33.734 --> 00:45:36.200
is inconsistent with their religion.

930
00:45:36.200 --> 00:45:39.667
It is really a belief that the modern world poses a threat

931
00:45:39.667 --> 00:45:40.734
to their religion.

932
00:45:40.734 --> 00:45:42.567
For the leaders of the group.

933
00:45:42.567 --> 00:45:47.334
Second -- the second layer, right, is those young men and

934
00:45:47.334 --> 00:45:52.067
young women, largely young men, in Muslim countries who are

935
00:45:52.067 --> 00:45:54.901
attracted to these leaders, right.

936
00:45:54.901 --> 00:45:58.000
Some of them are attracted by the religious message.

937
00:45:58.000 --> 00:46:02.901
But usually, the religious message is they don't understand

938
00:46:02.901 --> 00:46:07.133
Islam very well and it's used as a recruitment tool.

939
00:46:07.133 --> 00:46:13.767
But they're drawn to it because they're deeply frustrated about

940
00:46:13.767 --> 00:46:18.767
their place in their society and their lack of a future, um...

941
00:46:18.767 --> 00:46:19.901
And the ills of their society.

942
00:46:19.901 --> 00:46:21.334
And their ills of their society

943
00:46:21.334 --> 00:46:22.667
and the poor governance, right?

944
00:46:22.667 --> 00:46:24.000
Yes.

945
00:46:24.000 --> 00:46:25.667
They might be attracted because they're trying

946
00:46:25.667 --> 00:46:28.567
to protect a particular ethnic or sectarian group where they

947
00:46:28.567 --> 00:46:31.033
actually get revenge, right, for some past wrong.

948
00:46:31.033 --> 00:46:34.267
So they're attracted for all sorts of different reasons.

949
00:46:34.267 --> 00:46:34.834
A...

950
00:46:34.834 --> 00:46:36.267
And then the third group are those people in

951
00:46:36.267 --> 00:46:39.601
the West, right, in the United States and Western Europe

952
00:46:39.601 --> 00:46:40.934
who get attracted.

953
00:46:40.934 --> 00:46:47.501
And I think those folks are largely attracted by

954
00:46:47.501 --> 00:46:51.033
the belonging to something bigger than themselves.

955
00:46:51.033 --> 00:46:54.267
They're alienated in their communities and in their

956
00:46:54.267 --> 00:46:56.200
societies, in their schools.

957
00:46:56.200 --> 00:46:59.133
And they want to belong to something and these guys

958
00:46:59.133 --> 00:47:02.100
reach out to them and say, hey, you can belong to something

959
00:47:02.100 --> 00:47:03.667
pretty important here.

960
00:47:03.667 --> 00:47:07.467
And, you know, we have, Charlie, in the United States, we have

961
00:47:07.467 --> 00:47:13.200
kids like that, who turn to gangs or turn to drugs, right.

962
00:47:13.200 --> 00:47:17.400
These young Muslim kids turn to terrorism.

963
00:47:17.400 --> 00:47:23.267
And so we all have these alienated kids, right.

964
00:47:23.267 --> 00:47:27.234
And so getting your arms around that long war is really,

965
00:47:27.234 --> 00:47:29.200
really important.

966
00:47:29.200 --> 00:47:31.934
You know, it's something Hillary Clinton did when she became

967
00:47:31.934 --> 00:47:33.400
secretary of State and tried to do it.

968
00:47:33.400 --> 00:47:37.200
I think the U.S. government needs to invest a lot of money

969
00:47:37.200 --> 00:47:38.801
and I know she agrees with that.

970
00:47:38.801 --> 00:47:41.934
I mean a lot of people will say the following.

971
00:47:41.934 --> 00:47:45.000
So how good was Hillary Clinton as a Secretary of State?

972
00:47:45.000 --> 00:47:46.567
Tell me where her successes were.

973
00:47:46.567 --> 00:47:48.167
I don't want to do that now, and I've talked to her

974
00:47:48.167 --> 00:47:49.801
about that here.

975
00:47:49.801 --> 00:47:53.734
But tell me something we don't know about her.

976
00:47:53.734 --> 00:47:56.300
You know her, you've seen her.

977
00:47:56.300 --> 00:47:58.801
Yes, I worked with her.

978
00:47:58.801 --> 00:48:01.701
Charlie, I'll tell you a story.

979
00:48:01.701 --> 00:48:06.968
I think the whole world knows that when Dave Petraeus left

980
00:48:06.968 --> 00:48:11.667
government, that the President was considering two people

981
00:48:11.667 --> 00:48:15.133
to replace Dave as the director of CIA.

982
00:48:15.133 --> 00:48:20.901
One was John Brennan and one was Michael Morell.

983
00:48:20.901 --> 00:48:24.133
And he chose, obviously, John Brennan.

984
00:48:24.133 --> 00:48:29.067
The day after the President told me in the Oval Office

985
00:48:29.067 --> 00:48:32.601
that he was giving the job to John, he was extraordinarily

986
00:48:32.601 --> 00:48:35.167
gracious with me.

987
00:48:35.167 --> 00:48:39.901
The day after, there was a routine principals meeting

988
00:48:39.901 --> 00:48:42.300
in the Situation Room.

989
00:48:42.300 --> 00:48:45.234
I was still the acting director of CIA, so I was representing

990
00:48:45.234 --> 00:48:46.767
CIA at this meeting.

991
00:48:46.767 --> 00:48:50.400
And she walked in the room.

992
00:48:50.400 --> 00:48:52.634
And, you know, when the Secretary of State walks in

993
00:48:52.634 --> 00:48:56.334
in the Sit Room, there's people who want her time, right.

994
00:48:56.334 --> 00:48:59.133
There are people who want to ask her all sorts of questions,

995
00:48:59.133 --> 00:49:01.267
have side bar conversations with her.

996
00:49:01.267 --> 00:49:04.133
And that happened, as usual, when she walked in the room.

997
00:49:04.133 --> 00:49:09.968
And these people approached her and she ignored them all.

998
00:49:09.968 --> 00:49:13.300
And she walked over to me and she sat down next to me.

999
00:49:13.300 --> 00:49:19.200
And she put her hand on my arm and she simply said,

1000
00:49:19.200 --> 00:49:22.267
Are you OK?

1001
00:49:22.267 --> 00:49:30.067
There is humanity there that I think the public needs to know.

1002
00:49:30.067 --> 00:49:32.400
I mean she's tough and decisive, but there's an awful lot

1003
00:49:32.400 --> 00:49:34.234
of humanity there, too.

1004
00:49:34.234 --> 00:49:37.133
As -- well, as you know, that goes to one of

1005
00:49:37.133 --> 00:49:39.901
the questions that's most often raised about her, which is

1006
00:49:39.901 --> 00:49:43.200
not her humanity, but also some sense of trust and how does

1007
00:49:43.200 --> 00:49:46.501
someone communicate those kinds of things without

1008
00:49:46.501 --> 00:49:48.033
talking about yourself?

1009
00:49:48.033 --> 00:49:48.501
Right.

1010
00:49:48.501 --> 00:49:50.434
And she's never been able to do that as well as

1011
00:49:50.434 --> 00:49:52.634
I think she would be the first to admit,

1012
00:49:52.634 --> 00:49:54.267
that she would like to do.

1013
00:49:54.267 --> 00:49:56.200
And so that's an interesting story.

1014
00:49:56.200 --> 00:49:59.968
And that's what you hope will come out in a process like

1015
00:49:59.968 --> 00:50:03.300
this, somebody -- a combination of things will -- people will

1016
00:50:03.300 --> 00:50:06.901
understand what's at the core of a person's being.

1017
00:50:06.901 --> 00:50:07.434
Right.

1018
00:50:07.434 --> 00:50:10.267
And it is in small matters in which it is not

1019
00:50:10.267 --> 00:50:14.133
the glare of publicity that one shows their integrity

1020
00:50:14.133 --> 00:50:15.501
or their character.

1021
00:50:15.501 --> 00:50:19.067
You know, it was interesting, Charlie, you know,

1022
00:50:19.067 --> 00:50:23.200
I was -- I worked with her for four years.

1023
00:50:23.200 --> 00:50:27.634
Leon Panetta and David Petraeus worked with her for four years.

1024
00:50:27.634 --> 00:50:30.200
We trusted her word.

1025
00:50:30.200 --> 00:50:32.434
We trusted her judgment.

1026
00:50:32.434 --> 00:50:39.267
You know, Dr. Panetta and Dr. Petraeus, I provided her with

1027
00:50:39.267 --> 00:50:41.501
some of the most sensitive information

1028
00:50:41.501 --> 00:50:44.234
that the CIA collects.

1029
00:50:44.234 --> 00:50:46.634
She never gave us one reason to doubt

1030
00:50:46.634 --> 00:50:48.601
how she was handling that.

1031
00:50:48.601 --> 00:50:52.367
You know, she spoke to us, communicated

1032
00:50:52.367 --> 00:50:54.334
with us forthrightly.

1033
00:50:54.334 --> 00:50:57.000
You know, when she agreed with us, she told us.

1034
00:50:57.000 --> 00:50:59.200
When she disagreed, she told us.

1035
00:50:59.200 --> 00:51:01.567
She didn't play bureaucratic games.

1036
00:51:01.567 --> 00:51:03.501
When she promised to do something on our behalf,

1037
00:51:03.501 --> 00:51:05.901
she delivered.

1038
00:51:05.901 --> 00:51:07.767
You know, I saw her make judgments in the Sit Room,

1039
00:51:07.767 --> 00:51:10.801
about tough national security issues.

1040
00:51:10.801 --> 00:51:17.000
I saw her think them through carefully, decisively, you know,

1041
00:51:17.000 --> 00:51:21.501
for one person here, right, I trust her word

1042
00:51:21.501 --> 00:51:23.467
and I trust her judgment.

1043
00:51:23.467 --> 00:51:24.901
Thank you for coming.

1044
00:51:24.901 --> 00:51:25.634
Michael Morell.

1045
00:51:25.634 --> 00:51:28.400
The book is called "The Great War of Our Time: The CIA's Fight

1046
00:51:28.400 --> 00:51:31.968
Against Terrorism from al Qaeda to ISIS."

1047
00:51:31.968 --> 00:51:35.901
I also want to say from this broadcast and this table,

1048
00:51:35.901 --> 00:51:38.400
we have invited Donald Trump to come here

1049
00:51:38.400 --> 00:51:41.534
many, many, many times.

1050
00:51:41.534 --> 00:51:43.133
We hope he will come.

1051
00:51:43.133 --> 00:51:45.434
He has an open invitation to come sit at this table.

1052
00:51:45.434 --> 00:51:49.534
And so do people who advise him and who would write --

1053
00:51:49.534 --> 00:51:52.234
like to write an editorial saying that the worst thing

1054
00:51:52.234 --> 00:51:55.100
that could happen would be for Hillary Clinton to be president,

1055
00:51:55.100 --> 00:51:57.901
and that they would like to see Donald Trump be president.

1056
00:51:57.901 --> 00:51:59.801
This is an important election.

1057
00:51:59.801 --> 00:52:02.167
It's an important election that we understand what the stakes

1058
00:52:02.167 --> 00:52:03.901
are for all of us here.

1059
00:52:03.901 --> 00:52:07.334
There is economic and social discontent in this country

1060
00:52:07.334 --> 00:52:09.400
and we all need to address it.

1061
00:52:09.400 --> 00:52:11.567
There's also questions of national security

1062
00:52:11.567 --> 00:52:13.100
which need to be addressed.

1063
00:52:13.100 --> 00:52:16.968
And those things are political questions as well as

1064
00:52:16.968 --> 00:52:19.834
questions about the future, about change,

1065
00:52:19.834 --> 00:52:22.100
and about everything that elections are about.

1066
00:52:22.100 --> 00:52:25.767
So we say to people, we want you here at this table.

1067
00:52:25.767 --> 00:52:28.801
We want this table to be a place where people express their

1068
00:52:28.801 --> 00:52:33.467
own experience, their passion, their ideas and their beliefs,

1069
00:52:33.467 --> 00:52:36.133
and engage in that conversation.

1070
00:52:36.133 --> 00:52:38.601
And sometimes we like to have them come together at the same

1071
00:52:38.601 --> 00:52:43.033
time and see where we are and talk about what America is

1072
00:52:43.033 --> 00:52:44.634
and what it can be.

1073
00:52:44.634 --> 00:52:45.968
Thank you for joining us.

1074
00:52:45.968 --> 00:52:48.000
We'll see you next time.