WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:00.367 when we continue. 2 00:00:00.367 --> 00:00:02.968 Foreign Affairs, this magazine I am holding in my 3 00:00:02.968 --> 00:00:06.801 hands, is the oldest and most widely read journal on 4 00:00:06.801 --> 00:00:09.033 international relations around. 5 00:00:09.033 --> 00:00:11.634 This year marks the publication's 75th anniversary. 6 00:00:11.634 --> 00:00:15.667 It was founded in 1922 by the Council on Foreign Relations. 7 00:00:15.667 --> 00:00:18.767 Its articles have influenced the world with such contributors as 8 00:00:18.767 --> 00:00:22.000 George Kennan, Arthur Schlesinger, Henry Kissinger, 9 00:00:22.000 --> 00:00:24.501 Samuel Huntington and countless others. 10 00:00:24.501 --> 00:00:26.701 Jim Hoge is editor of Foreign Affairs. 11 00:00:26.701 --> 00:00:28.801 Fareed Zakaria is managing editor. 12 00:00:28.801 --> 00:00:32.200 The two have collected over 40 essays from the journal's 75 13 00:00:32.200 --> 00:00:36.567 years in the American encounter, this book, and I am pleased to 14 00:00:36.567 --> 00:00:40.534 have them here to talk about a subject they both know I enjoy 15 00:00:40.534 --> 00:00:43.767 and continue to find fascinating, which is foreign 16 00:00:43.767 --> 00:00:45.367 policy and foreign affairs. 17 00:00:45.367 --> 00:00:46.367 Welcome, sir. 18 00:00:46.367 --> 00:00:50.267 Let me just talk about your tenure here. 19 00:00:50.267 --> 00:00:55.033 Tell me how this magazine is different, this journal, 20 00:00:55.033 --> 00:00:56.100 since you took over. 21 00:00:56.100 --> 00:00:58.667 It's five years now and I came in, and Fareed joined 22 00:00:58.667 --> 00:01:02.067 me very shortly thereafter, really as the cold war was 23 00:01:02.067 --> 00:01:04.834 ending and we were moving into this period that we're still 24 00:01:04.834 --> 00:01:05.834 trying to define. 25 00:01:05.834 --> 00:01:09.901 So the first thing we had in front of us was really a whole 26 00:01:09.901 --> 00:01:14.167 new world to look at, a new set of issues, some old ones popping 27 00:01:14.167 --> 00:01:18.601 up, but in any event, the end of the rather static last period 28 00:01:18.601 --> 00:01:22.234 of the cold war and the bipolar rivalry between the Soviet Union 29 00:01:22.234 --> 00:01:23.234 and the United States. 30 00:01:23.234 --> 00:01:26.534 So the first thing we did was to expand very much the subject 31 00:01:26.534 --> 00:01:28.501 matters that we were putting in the books-- a lot more on 32 00:01:28.501 --> 00:01:31.834 economics, a lot more on Asia, a lot more on the rise of 33 00:01:31.834 --> 00:01:33.534 nationalism again. 34 00:01:33.534 --> 00:01:37.234 And we started looking around to complement our very wonderful 35 00:01:37.234 --> 00:01:40.534 stable of writers with some new voices from a different 36 00:01:40.534 --> 00:01:42.367 generation, so to speak. 37 00:01:42.367 --> 00:01:45.100 Then we redesigned it a bit and we tried to edit the pieces 38 00:01:45.100 --> 00:01:48.000 a little tighter to make it more accessible, more readable. 39 00:01:48.000 --> 00:01:51.367 We went from four times a year to once every other month, our 40 00:01:51.367 --> 00:01:54.567 assumption being that with all that was going on in this world, 41 00:01:54.567 --> 00:01:57.701 we needed to be a little closer to the rhythms of the news, even 42 00:01:57.701 --> 00:02:00.767 though we are in the business of analysis and not news, per se. 43 00:02:00.767 --> 00:02:02.767 And I think it's worked pretty well. 44 00:02:02.767 --> 00:02:04.834 The-- despite what everybody says, ``Nobody's interested 45 00:02:04.834 --> 00:02:06.834 in foreign affairs,'' our circulation has gone up. 46 00:02:06.834 --> 00:02:08.834 Okay, but other than the logistics of how-- 47 00:02:08.834 --> 00:02:09.801 Yeah. 48 00:02:09.801 --> 00:02:11.801 --you publish, the central thing about your 49 00:02:11.801 --> 00:02:13.801 tenure there has been the times that have changed. 50 00:02:13.801 --> 00:02:14.801 Absolutely. 51 00:02:14.801 --> 00:02:15.801 You know? 52 00:02:15.801 --> 00:02:16.801 Yeah. 53 00:02:16.801 --> 00:02:18.801 The subject is different. 54 00:02:18.801 --> 00:02:19.801 Yeah. 55 00:02:19.801 --> 00:02:21.801 Well, the prism expands 56 00:02:21.801 --> 00:02:22.801 enormously, right? 57 00:02:22.801 --> 00:02:24.801 I mean, you look at Foreign Affairs during the cold war-- 58 00:02:24.801 --> 00:02:26.801 incredibly important articles, but most of them, and 59 00:02:26.801 --> 00:02:29.601 particularly the most influential ones about the 60 00:02:29.601 --> 00:02:33.334 Soviet rivalry, which is as it should have been. 61 00:02:33.334 --> 00:02:36.400 But now, at the end of the cold war, you're looking at 62 00:02:36.400 --> 00:02:37.400 the whole new world. 63 00:02:37.400 --> 00:02:39.901 You're asking yourself, ``Is technology transforming 64 00:02:39.901 --> 00:02:40.901 the world?'' 65 00:02:40.901 --> 00:02:43.501 ``Is nationalism rising in a way that it hasn't 66 00:02:43.501 --> 00:02:45.100 for a long time?'' 67 00:02:45.100 --> 00:02:47.601 ``Are nations competing economically 68 00:02:47.601 --> 00:02:48.601 instead of geopolitically?'' 69 00:02:48.601 --> 00:02:50.734 -- you know, these sort of fundamental issues 70 00:02:50.734 --> 00:02:51.734 of first principles. 71 00:02:51.734 --> 00:02:53.701 The answer to all of those, I know, 72 00:02:53.701 --> 00:02:55.701 and I don't even have anything to do with the magazine, 73 00:02:55.701 --> 00:02:57.701 is ``Yes,'' ``Yes'' and ``Yes.'' Right? 74 00:02:57.701 --> 00:02:58.701 ``Yes,'' ``Yes'' and ``Yes.'' 75 00:02:58.701 --> 00:02:59.701 Well-- 76 00:02:59.701 --> 00:03:02.067 But the exact nature of it is really tough 77 00:03:02.067 --> 00:03:03.100 to understand sometimes. 78 00:03:03.100 --> 00:03:05.100 And then, of course, there's this whole new phenomenon 79 00:03:05.100 --> 00:03:07.100 of ethnic wars and the sub-national wars-- 80 00:03:07.100 --> 00:03:08.100 Right. Right. 81 00:03:08.100 --> 00:03:10.100 --the wars not between states, but between 82 00:03:10.100 --> 00:03:11.100 groups of people-- 83 00:03:11.100 --> 00:03:12.100 Within states. 84 00:03:12.100 --> 00:03:14.100 Yeah, within states. 85 00:03:14.100 --> 00:03:16.100 And Tom Friedman makes that point, that, really, 86 00:03:16.100 --> 00:03:18.100 the conflict today is within nation states-- 87 00:03:18.100 --> 00:03:19.067 Right. 88 00:03:19.067 --> 00:03:21.067 --between opposing forces-- 89 00:03:21.067 --> 00:03:22.067 Right. 90 00:03:22.067 --> 00:03:24.067 --winners and losers. 91 00:03:24.067 --> 00:03:26.067 And another big change that's coming now is the 92 00:03:26.067 --> 00:03:28.067 rise of new great powers and non-Western ones. 93 00:03:28.067 --> 00:03:30.067 One of the real challenges, I think, facing the United States 94 00:03:30.067 --> 00:03:31.367 is are we going to do a better job this time around in 95 00:03:31.367 --> 00:03:33.367 incorporating these new great powers, of which China is number 96 00:03:33.367 --> 00:03:35.367 one, than was done, say, the last time, when Japan 97 00:03:35.367 --> 00:03:37.367 and Germany began to rise at the beginning 98 00:03:37.367 --> 00:03:38.367 of our current century? 99 00:03:38.367 --> 00:03:40.400 And do you think we are? 100 00:03:40.400 --> 00:03:41.400 Do you think-- 101 00:03:41.400 --> 00:03:42.400 I think-- 102 00:03:42.400 --> 00:03:43.834 --there is that kind of debate 103 00:03:43.834 --> 00:03:45.400 and discussion taking place today? 104 00:03:45.400 --> 00:03:47.400 Well, I think-- I'll tell you. 105 00:03:47.400 --> 00:03:51.501 I think the Clinton second-term team is doing a better job of 106 00:03:51.501 --> 00:03:54.133 implementation on this issue and others than they did in the 107 00:03:54.133 --> 00:03:55.133 first term. 108 00:03:55.133 --> 00:03:57.133 Because of the secretary of state or because of 109 00:03:57.133 --> 00:03:58.133 the national security adviser? 110 00:03:58.133 --> 00:04:00.200 I think-- I think in-- for several-- first of all, 111 00:04:00.200 --> 00:04:02.567 I think they just got more experience under their belt. 112 00:04:02.567 --> 00:04:06.834 Secondly, I think the president got it right now, which is this 113 00:04:06.834 --> 00:04:09.834 is a strategic relationship and therefore you have to coordinate 114 00:04:09.834 --> 00:04:12.901 all the parts and you have to have everybody marching with 115 00:04:12.901 --> 00:04:15.400 some central direction and I think that's coming from the 116 00:04:15.400 --> 00:04:17.400 national security adviser, Sandy Berger. 117 00:04:17.400 --> 00:04:18.400 Berger. 118 00:04:18.400 --> 00:04:22.667 I also think that, clearly, this president came to this 119 00:04:22.667 --> 00:04:24.667 White House with no experience in foreign affairs-- 120 00:04:24.667 --> 00:04:25.667 True. 121 00:04:25.667 --> 00:04:27.667 --and campaigned on the idea that it was the 122 00:04:27.667 --> 00:04:29.634 economy and was reelected because he did something about 123 00:04:29.634 --> 00:04:30.634 the economy. 124 00:04:30.634 --> 00:04:31.634 That's right. 125 00:04:31.634 --> 00:04:33.634 And no interest in foreign affairs. 126 00:04:33.634 --> 00:04:35.634 And no interest-- but now is more, 127 00:04:35.634 --> 00:04:37.634 whatever the-- you can talk about particular places, 128 00:04:37.634 --> 00:04:40.100 but is more seasoned and has a surer foot today. 129 00:04:40.100 --> 00:04:41.267 Don't you think? 130 00:04:41.267 --> 00:04:42.267 Yeah. I mean, I think-- 131 00:04:42.267 --> 00:04:44.267 I don't want to give him 132 00:04:44.267 --> 00:04:46.300 too much credit or not give him enough, 133 00:04:46.300 --> 00:04:47.901 but I think that's clear. 134 00:04:47.901 --> 00:04:48.901 Right. 135 00:04:48.901 --> 00:04:50.901 I think he's still more reactive than I would like, personally. 136 00:04:50.901 --> 00:04:53.000 I mean, I think that, in general, he tends to react 137 00:04:53.000 --> 00:04:54.000 to crises. 138 00:04:54.000 --> 00:04:57.334 He doesn't have a broad, long-term agenda that he's 139 00:04:57.334 --> 00:04:58.334 trying to push. 140 00:04:58.334 --> 00:05:00.334 If you look at even trade, for example, which should be 141 00:05:00.334 --> 00:05:04.000 something that he's-- he devotes a lot more time and is a lot 142 00:05:04.000 --> 00:05:07.567 more active on, when he gets-- you know, when he finds that 143 00:05:07.567 --> 00:05:10.200 ``fast track'' is in trouble, as he now does, he'll probably 144 00:05:10.200 --> 00:05:13.300 scramble and do something and put together a coalition, 145 00:05:13.300 --> 00:05:16.601 but you don't have a sense of a consistent attempt to create 146 00:05:16.601 --> 00:05:21.167 public support and international awareness on the issue. 147 00:05:21.167 --> 00:05:23.834 Where else should he, in your judgment, 148 00:05:23.834 --> 00:05:27.234 or even within a consensus of people who might write-- 149 00:05:27.234 --> 00:05:31.567 where should he be not taking the initiative? 150 00:05:31.567 --> 00:05:32.567 Where is the need-- 151 00:05:32.567 --> 00:05:34.567 Well, one is-- : 152 00:05:34.567 --> 00:05:35.567 >>CHARLIE ROSE --to see this-- 153 00:05:35.567 --> 00:05:37.567 Yeah. 154 00:05:37.567 --> 00:05:40.300 --superpower, the remaining superpower, 155 00:05:40.300 --> 00:05:44.167 exert its influence and resources and power? 156 00:05:44.167 --> 00:05:46.167 It really depends on who you talk to. 157 00:05:46.167 --> 00:05:48.167 There are different ideas about this. 158 00:05:48.167 --> 00:05:49.167 Yeah. 159 00:05:49.167 --> 00:05:51.167 One-- Clinton came into office saying, 160 00:05:51.167 --> 00:05:53.133 ``Look, we're moving into a multi-polar world. 161 00:05:53.133 --> 00:05:55.501 We're moving into a world in which multilateral answers to 162 00:05:55.501 --> 00:05:58.767 problems are going to be necessary because we don't have 163 00:05:58.767 --> 00:06:02.701 the power to do it all on our own, in most cases.'' 164 00:06:02.701 --> 00:06:08.667 It got a bad name for a while because of some miscues 165 00:06:08.667 --> 00:06:09.934 and he just kind of dropped it. 166 00:06:09.934 --> 00:06:12.234 And now they're beginning to move back in that direction in 167 00:06:12.234 --> 00:06:14.701 the second term, I think, fleshing that out. 168 00:06:14.701 --> 00:06:18.601 What is the kind of the international regime going to be 169 00:06:18.601 --> 00:06:23.767 by which we cooperate with other people, influence other people? 170 00:06:23.767 --> 00:06:26.868 How this process is going to work is a major challenge. 171 00:06:26.868 --> 00:06:28.868 And I would say, I mean, 172 00:06:28.868 --> 00:06:30.934 two things specifically, which is Russia and China. 173 00:06:30.934 --> 00:06:36.267 In a way, the-- every other great power has been involved in 174 00:06:36.267 --> 00:06:39.834 the American-created Western world order and they're all 175 00:06:39.834 --> 00:06:42.567 bourgeois liberal democracies and that makes an enormous 176 00:06:42.567 --> 00:06:44.968 difference to how you deal with them in foreign policy. 177 00:06:44.968 --> 00:06:49.367 Russia and China are really the two outsiders in that system 178 00:06:49.367 --> 00:06:52.067 and how you deal with them becomes incredibly important. 179 00:06:52.067 --> 00:06:56.734 And I think that-- if you were to pick two things to deal with 180 00:06:56.734 --> 00:06:59.734 for the next 20 years-- 181 00:06:59.734 --> 00:07:01.100 All right. Let's take China first. 182 00:07:01.100 --> 00:07:04.501 Jiang Zemin is coming here October 27th, I think it is, 183 00:07:04.501 --> 00:07:05.567 somewhere thereabouts. 184 00:07:05.567 --> 00:07:11.934 What should this president do and what might come 185 00:07:11.934 --> 00:07:13.534 out of this meeting? 186 00:07:13.534 --> 00:07:16.167 I don't think that much in the way of substance 187 00:07:16.167 --> 00:07:19.334 is going to come out of this meeting in part because both 188 00:07:19.334 --> 00:07:23.000 these leaders have some very big domestic constraints 189 00:07:23.000 --> 00:07:25.067 at the moment. 190 00:07:25.067 --> 00:07:29.901 Bill Clinton has a Congress a good part of which is very 191 00:07:29.901 --> 00:07:33.100 anti-Chinese at the moment and is looking for excuses to be 192 00:07:33.100 --> 00:07:35.901 bellicose on the issue. 193 00:07:35.901 --> 00:07:39.567 Jiang is still consolidating his power and he has a right wing 194 00:07:39.567 --> 00:07:41.868 that doesn't want too many concessions 195 00:07:41.868 --> 00:07:42.901 to the United States. 196 00:07:42.901 --> 00:07:46.167 So on a whole list of items of any size -- like will China get 197 00:07:46.167 --> 00:07:49.868 into the world trading organization, will there be any 198 00:07:49.868 --> 00:07:51.868 progress on human rights -- I don't think we're 199 00:07:51.868 --> 00:07:52.868 going to see much. 200 00:07:52.868 --> 00:07:55.267 Now, the Chinese are saying that, look, the symbolism of 201 00:07:55.267 --> 00:08:00.267 having this summit after such a long period of time -- 202 00:08:00.267 --> 00:08:04.501 Tiananmen Square in 1989 is the last time before that 203 00:08:04.501 --> 00:08:06.901 the presidents of these two countries got together -- 204 00:08:06.901 --> 00:08:08.400 is going to be important to them. 205 00:08:08.400 --> 00:08:10.400 I think that's a little bit of face-saving. 206 00:08:10.400 --> 00:08:13.000 I think they wanted more out of this summit 207 00:08:13.000 --> 00:08:14.000 and the summit process. 208 00:08:14.000 --> 00:08:16.000 I think they wanted a better sense of what's the framework 209 00:08:16.000 --> 00:08:18.000 for the relationship going to be. 210 00:08:18.000 --> 00:08:22.000 I think, from the point of view of the United States, 211 00:08:22.000 --> 00:08:26.367 we're going to dress up what is essentially a symbolic occasion 212 00:08:26.367 --> 00:08:31.968 and try and keep the process moving of engaging the two 213 00:08:31.968 --> 00:08:35.868 countries, of having a second summit, of not dropping the ball 214 00:08:35.868 --> 00:08:39.367 again where we're each talking past each other. 215 00:08:39.367 --> 00:08:40.367 Yeah. 216 00:08:40.367 --> 00:08:41.501 And it slides off into, as you say, something-- 217 00:08:41.501 --> 00:08:42.501 rather than dialogue-- 218 00:08:42.501 --> 00:08:43.501 Yes. 219 00:08:43.501 --> 00:08:45.567 --it slides off in just to rhetoric. 220 00:08:45.567 --> 00:08:46.567 Yeah. 221 00:08:46.567 --> 00:08:50.033 Russia-- did we blow it in Russia? 222 00:08:50.033 --> 00:08:54.901 Did we, meaning the United States, at the time that 223 00:08:54.901 --> 00:08:59.467 everything was falling apart, to play a different kind of role 224 00:08:59.467 --> 00:09:02.267 in helping progressive forces do better? 225 00:09:02.267 --> 00:09:04.267 Well, that's-- and it's a great question, 226 00:09:04.267 --> 00:09:07.868 Charlie, because in a way, you can make the case that if you 227 00:09:07.868 --> 00:09:14.267 look at how you deal with the defeated power after a war has 228 00:09:14.267 --> 00:09:16.701 an enormous amount to do with whether the peace that follows 229 00:09:16.701 --> 00:09:18.000 is stable or not. 230 00:09:18.000 --> 00:09:19.367 You look at World War I. 231 00:09:19.367 --> 00:09:20.400 Germany is defeated. 232 00:09:20.400 --> 00:09:22.968 You leave it completely isolated, out of the system. 233 00:09:22.968 --> 00:09:25.300 It becomes vengeful. 234 00:09:25.300 --> 00:09:26.968 It tries to come back. 235 00:09:26.968 --> 00:09:28.968 And Hitler-- 236 00:09:28.968 --> 00:09:32.968 And most German statesmen in the '30s 237 00:09:32.968 --> 00:09:34.534 were-- wanted to scrap Versailles and the peace. 238 00:09:34.534 --> 00:09:36.834 You look, on the other hand, at the end of the Napoleonic wars 239 00:09:36.834 --> 00:09:40.601 or the end of World War II, the defeated power, France in 1815 240 00:09:40.601 --> 00:09:44.534 and Germany and Japan in '45, we embraced, 241 00:09:44.534 --> 00:09:45.667 brought into the system. 242 00:09:45.667 --> 00:09:48.434 I think we've done some of that with Russia, but there has been 243 00:09:48.434 --> 00:09:50.534 a kind of grudging quality to it. 244 00:09:50.534 --> 00:09:54.033 There's been a sort of constant cold war suspicion, 245 00:09:54.033 --> 00:09:57.067 interestingly enough, not among the real hawks. 246 00:09:57.067 --> 00:10:02.300 If you look at-- Reagan was very anxious to make real overtures 247 00:10:02.300 --> 00:10:04.300 to the Russians by the end of his term. 248 00:10:04.300 --> 00:10:08.234 Richard Pipes, one of our authors, great cold war hawk, 249 00:10:08.234 --> 00:10:11.901 is, you know, against NATO expansion, thinks we should be 250 00:10:11.901 --> 00:10:13.901 much more generous to the Russians, et cetera. 251 00:10:13.901 --> 00:10:16.300 And I think there we may have missed an opportunity and it's 252 00:10:16.300 --> 00:10:18.501 now missed, I think. 253 00:10:18.501 --> 00:10:22.868 You can't-- you can't change it. 254 00:10:22.868 --> 00:10:26.667 Is the biggest impediment to foreign policy 255 00:10:26.667 --> 00:10:30.300 initiative by an American president the fact that the 256 00:10:30.300 --> 00:10:34.267 American public doesn't care? 257 00:10:34.267 --> 00:10:37.167 Well, there's no question that that's a problem, 258 00:10:37.167 --> 00:10:40.334 but as you pointed out, Charlie, we have a president who came 259 00:10:40.334 --> 00:10:44.133 into office having campaigned primarily on ``It's now time to 260 00:10:44.133 --> 00:10:46.534 turn to our domestic issues,'' and in the-- 261 00:10:46.534 --> 00:10:48.834 And he was right because-- 262 00:10:48.834 --> 00:10:50.567 He was right from a political point of view. 263 00:10:50.567 --> 00:10:52.567 --we now have the strongest economy. 264 00:10:52.567 --> 00:10:54.567 That's part of America's strength entering-- 265 00:10:54.567 --> 00:10:55.567 Yeah. 266 00:10:55.567 --> 00:10:57.567 --the end of the century. 267 00:10:57.567 --> 00:10:59.567 And as far as international was concerned, 268 00:10:59.567 --> 00:11:01.567 he argued that, essentially, the issues confronting us now 269 00:11:01.567 --> 00:11:03.267 are economic. 270 00:11:03.267 --> 00:11:06.067 He has spoken very little about foreign policy. 271 00:11:06.067 --> 00:11:08.300 He's left it to others and Warren Christopher. 272 00:11:08.300 --> 00:11:10.701 That was not one of his strengths. 273 00:11:10.701 --> 00:11:11.834 It is one of Madeleine's. 274 00:11:11.834 --> 00:11:13.834 Yes, that's right. 275 00:11:13.834 --> 00:11:15.834 And she's doing a very good job, but we have a 276 00:11:15.834 --> 00:11:17.834 kind of political system where, really, it is the president who 277 00:11:17.834 --> 00:11:21.267 can galvanize public opinion and others can help, 278 00:11:21.267 --> 00:11:22.934 but they can't do it on their own. 279 00:11:22.934 --> 00:11:24.701 We have a summit coming up. 280 00:11:24.701 --> 00:11:28.934 He's going to give his first speech about China two days 281 00:11:28.934 --> 00:11:31.200 before the summit begins. 282 00:11:31.200 --> 00:11:35.801 He literally has not touched the subject before. 283 00:11:35.801 --> 00:11:41.133 Now, that's-- you know, that's not a very concerted program of 284 00:11:41.133 --> 00:11:43.801 building public opinion behind the positions that he wants to-- 285 00:11:43.801 --> 00:11:45.767 But any surprise there is-- 286 00:11:45.767 --> 00:11:47.767 And to show that you care and at least-- 287 00:11:47.767 --> 00:11:48.767 because it is a bully pulpit-- 288 00:11:48.767 --> 00:11:49.767 Yeah. 289 00:11:49.767 --> 00:11:50.767 --you can make a differences 290 00:11:50.767 --> 00:11:51.767 without necessarily-- 291 00:11:51.767 --> 00:11:52.767 Yeah. 292 00:11:52.767 --> 00:11:54.767 --spending political capital. 293 00:11:54.767 --> 00:11:56.801 I mean, and then he's surprised there isn't 294 00:11:56.801 --> 00:11:58.801 support behind his China policy. 295 00:11:58.801 --> 00:12:00.801 Well, you know, you have to build the support. 296 00:12:00.801 --> 00:12:02.801 It's not going to be there de facto. 297 00:12:02.801 --> 00:12:04.801 His supporters would say, ``Hey, we got a real 298 00:12:04.801 --> 00:12:05.801 Catch-22 here. 299 00:12:05.801 --> 00:12:07.801 The American public is not paying attention, so if we give 300 00:12:07.801 --> 00:12:09.801 the speech about China in the middle of September, 301 00:12:09.801 --> 00:12:10.801 nobody's going to know. 302 00:12:10.801 --> 00:12:13.067 We have to wait until what they call an `action-forcing' event 303 00:12:13.067 --> 00:12:16.367 occurs'' -- this is George Stephanopoulos -- ``and that is 304 00:12:16.367 --> 00:12:20.300 the summit itself.'' Well, I buy that to some extent, but one 305 00:12:20.300 --> 00:12:23.467 of the reasons for public apathy is that nobody has been jumping 306 00:12:23.467 --> 00:12:25.834 on the public, saying, ``You really need to pay attention to 307 00:12:25.834 --> 00:12:28.534 some of these things because America's prosperity, America's 308 00:12:28.534 --> 00:12:35.734 security is involved and we can't live in this world under 309 00:12:35.734 --> 00:12:38.501 the rules of self-sufficiency anymore'' and haven't been able 310 00:12:38.501 --> 00:12:39.501 to for a long time. 311 00:12:39.501 --> 00:12:46.801 How deep do you feel this East-West conflict is, 312 00:12:46.801 --> 00:12:51.767 as the future battleground for great conflict? 313 00:12:51.767 --> 00:12:55.067 I mean by that, you know, what Iran represents-- 314 00:12:55.067 --> 00:12:57.067 ``Asian values,'' as they-- 315 00:12:57.067 --> 00:12:59.434 And Asian values-- 316 00:12:59.434 --> 00:13:00.434 --which Fareed has a piece in the book on. 317 00:13:00.434 --> 00:13:01.467 Right. 318 00:13:01.467 --> 00:13:03.467 Well, Lee Kuan Yu, as you know, 319 00:13:03.467 --> 00:13:05.801 is one of the great exponents of this view and I think what it 320 00:13:05.801 --> 00:13:09.334 fundamentally represents is that there are a lot of new players 321 00:13:09.334 --> 00:13:13.467 in the game who are non-Western and they're getting very rich 322 00:13:13.467 --> 00:13:14.901 and very powerful. 323 00:13:14.901 --> 00:13:18.300 And with wealth comes a certain degree of assertiveness, 324 00:13:18.300 --> 00:13:22.400 even arrogance and that will change the structure of the 325 00:13:22.400 --> 00:13:23.734 international system. 326 00:13:23.734 --> 00:13:26.000 The rest of the world, the non-Western world, has for the 327 00:13:26.000 --> 00:13:31.200 most part been an arena in which the West operated, 328 00:13:31.200 --> 00:13:32.200 colonized, et cetera. 329 00:13:32.200 --> 00:13:35.934 It is now becoming an actor rather than something that is 330 00:13:35.934 --> 00:13:37.133 acted upon. 331 00:13:37.133 --> 00:13:39.167 I don't buy the ``Asian values'' business. 332 00:13:39.167 --> 00:13:42.234 I mean, most of the stuff Lee Kuan Yew talks about is 333 00:13:42.234 --> 00:13:45.067 basically old-fashioned Protestant ethics, 334 00:13:45.067 --> 00:13:46.267 Western values-- you know, ``family values.'' 335 00:13:46.267 --> 00:13:49.734 I mean, it's one-- in effect, I said to him-- 336 00:13:49.734 --> 00:13:57.734 it's not in the interview, but at the end 337 00:13:57.734 --> 00:14:02.167 I said, ``You realize everything you say about America has been 338 00:14:02.167 --> 00:14:07.167 said by the neo-conservatives and Commentary magazine since 339 00:14:07.167 --> 00:14:09.167 1968.'' And he was sort of startled, so-- you know, 340 00:14:09.167 --> 00:14:11.167 which is not to say it's true or false, but it's hardly 341 00:14:11.167 --> 00:14:12.167 a non-Western critique. 342 00:14:12.167 --> 00:14:13.167 Right. 343 00:14:13.167 --> 00:14:15.167 This is the cultural conservatives' critique 344 00:14:15.167 --> 00:14:17.167 of Western decadence for the last 20 years. 345 00:14:17.167 --> 00:14:19.167 When you look at this administration and at 346 00:14:19.167 --> 00:14:21.167 America -- more America than this administration -- and when 347 00:14:21.167 --> 00:14:23.701 you get around, as you do, to China and other places -- and 348 00:14:23.701 --> 00:14:30.133 Europe and other places in Asia like Indonesia, say -- do they-- 349 00:14:30.133 --> 00:14:33.000 are they looking for American leadership and finding it 350 00:14:33.000 --> 00:14:35.734 wanting? 351 00:14:35.734 --> 00:14:37.734 Well, on the first one-- 352 00:14:37.734 --> 00:14:38.734 I mean, is-- go ahead. 353 00:14:38.734 --> 00:14:40.734 --looking for American leadership-- I think in 354 00:14:40.734 --> 00:14:44.334 most places in the world that really count for us -- Europe, 355 00:14:44.334 --> 00:14:48.367 the Middle East and Asia -- there is a recognition that 356 00:14:48.367 --> 00:14:52.968 American leadership is needed and is more a force for 357 00:14:52.968 --> 00:14:57.367 stability than for hegemonic purposes. 358 00:14:57.367 --> 00:15:01.934 But it's not welcomed with open arms because nobody likes to be 359 00:15:01.934 --> 00:15:05.634 led by somebody else, so there is constant friction. 360 00:15:05.634 --> 00:15:08.534 I would say one thing that is building up is increasing 361 00:15:08.534 --> 00:15:12.000 irritation at what is seen as America's propensity for 362 00:15:12.000 --> 00:15:16.868 unilateral actions, whether it be economic sanctions or 363 00:15:16.868 --> 00:15:19.033 preaching on human rights or whatever. 364 00:15:19.033 --> 00:15:21.734 It's not just in authoritarian countries 365 00:15:21.734 --> 00:15:22.734 that you run into this. 366 00:15:22.734 --> 00:15:24.968 In Europe today this is becoming a big problem. 367 00:15:24.968 --> 00:15:26.968 Well, we're not talking about the French, 368 00:15:26.968 --> 00:15:27.968 though, are we? 369 00:15:27.968 --> 00:15:28.968 Well, I-- 370 00:15:28.968 --> 00:15:29.968 Come on. 371 00:15:29.968 --> 00:15:32.067 How about the Germans in Iran? 372 00:15:32.067 --> 00:15:33.067 Yeah. 373 00:15:33.067 --> 00:15:35.467 How about Great Britain, which is also siding 374 00:15:35.467 --> 00:15:38.834 now on the issue of whether one should be allowed to 375 00:15:38.834 --> 00:15:42.033 trade with Iran or not-- or siding with the Europeans versus us? 376 00:15:42.033 --> 00:15:44.868 How important is Iran? 377 00:15:44.868 --> 00:15:46.868 I think it's terribly important. 378 00:15:46.868 --> 00:15:51.067 It is the-- by far the best-resourced power 379 00:15:51.067 --> 00:15:55.100 in the Middle East-- people, culture, tradition, 380 00:15:55.100 --> 00:15:56.467 geopolitical position. 381 00:15:56.467 --> 00:15:59.100 It is a dynamic society at the moment. 382 00:15:59.100 --> 00:16:01.067 It has a world view that's different than ours. 383 00:16:01.067 --> 00:16:06.000 It intends to be heard and it is going for nuclear weapons. 384 00:16:06.000 --> 00:16:08.300 I think that's absolutely clear now. 385 00:16:08.300 --> 00:16:10.300 And I don't think they're going to be dissuaded as-- 386 00:16:10.300 --> 00:16:11.300 And with the help of the Russians, 387 00:16:11.300 --> 00:16:12.400 they'll get them. 388 00:16:12.400 --> 00:16:13.400 Yes. 389 00:16:13.400 --> 00:16:16.033 And I think as long as Israel is sitting there with nuclear 390 00:16:16.033 --> 00:16:19.100 weapons, Iran's position is going to be they cannot be the 391 00:16:19.100 --> 00:16:21.701 only power in the Middle East that's allowed to have 392 00:16:21.701 --> 00:16:22.801 nuclear weapons. 393 00:16:22.801 --> 00:16:24.801 That's their argument. 394 00:16:24.801 --> 00:16:25.801 Yeah. 395 00:16:25.801 --> 00:16:26.801 And they believe it. 396 00:16:26.801 --> 00:16:27.801 Oh. 397 00:16:27.801 --> 00:16:31.801 You know, and it has some logic to it, doesn't it. 398 00:16:31.801 --> 00:16:32.801 Yeah. 399 00:16:32.801 --> 00:16:34.767 I mean, you can say, ``Well''-- where is war 400 00:16:34.767 --> 00:16:37.601 most likely to break out? 401 00:16:37.601 --> 00:16:39.534 Tomorrow? 402 00:16:39.534 --> 00:16:40.534 Yes. 403 00:16:40.534 --> 00:16:44.000 The most serious, threatening war that would bring in more 404 00:16:44.000 --> 00:16:46.000 than people within a nation state? 405 00:16:46.000 --> 00:16:48.000 Well-- 406 00:16:48.000 --> 00:16:49.000 I'm not talking about-- 407 00:16:49.000 --> 00:16:50.000 Korea. 408 00:16:50.000 --> 00:16:51.000 Really? 409 00:16:51.000 --> 00:16:53.000 Well, I think it's the most likely. 410 00:16:53.000 --> 00:16:55.033 Korea and Bosnia would be the two places I would look at. 411 00:16:55.033 --> 00:16:57.033 It's-- go ahead. 412 00:16:57.033 --> 00:16:59.267 Korea simply because you have a fanatical 413 00:16:59.267 --> 00:17:03.968 dictator who is so sealed off from any kind of international 414 00:17:03.968 --> 00:17:08.801 norms, has so little to lose from getting into a war, 415 00:17:08.801 --> 00:17:11.000 that you can imagine some kind of act of bravado. 416 00:17:11.000 --> 00:17:13.000 So little to lose because they're backed up 417 00:17:13.000 --> 00:17:15.334 against the wall and with their economy and-- 418 00:17:15.334 --> 00:17:16.634 And the economy is Stone Age. 419 00:17:16.634 --> 00:17:18.634 How much further back can you go? 420 00:17:18.634 --> 00:17:21.667 For what it's worth, the Chinese think we are vastly 421 00:17:21.667 --> 00:17:26.501 exaggerating the fragility on the Korean Peninsula 422 00:17:26.501 --> 00:17:27.501 at the moment. 423 00:17:27.501 --> 00:17:29.467 They don't think that a war is going to break out. 424 00:17:29.467 --> 00:17:31.467 Now, see, that fascinates me. 425 00:17:31.467 --> 00:17:33.467 Are there any other examples of that, where, you know, there is 426 00:17:33.467 --> 00:17:35.467 some conventional-- what you just expressed is conventional 427 00:17:35.467 --> 00:17:36.467 wisdom, right? 428 00:17:36.467 --> 00:17:40.467 Right. Right. Right. Right. 429 00:17:40.467 --> 00:17:42.467 Where the other people who are smart 430 00:17:42.467 --> 00:17:44.467 who look at the same thing and say, ``Not on your life. 431 00:17:44.467 --> 00:17:45.467 That's not a big deal.'' 432 00:17:45.467 --> 00:17:46.467 Well, but you know why 433 00:17:46.467 --> 00:17:48.467 the Chinese-- the Chinese are propping up the 434 00:17:48.467 --> 00:17:50.167 North Korean regime because more than any other power, 435 00:17:50.167 --> 00:17:52.167 they would suffer the most if there was an implosion in Korea 436 00:17:52.167 --> 00:17:54.200 because, after all, it would eventually mean reunification-- 437 00:17:54.200 --> 00:17:56.534 --and then you'd have a South Korean-type regime 438 00:17:56.534 --> 00:17:58.534 on their border. 439 00:17:58.534 --> 00:18:00.534 Also there would be a huge migration of 440 00:18:00.534 --> 00:18:02.701 North Koreans across the Yalu River into China, but-- and our 441 00:18:02.701 --> 00:18:06.367 position to China, by the way, from our American ambassador 442 00:18:06.367 --> 00:18:08.467 over there, is ``You fellows better wake up. 443 00:18:08.467 --> 00:18:11.434 You are a little too complacent about the Peninsula. 444 00:18:11.434 --> 00:18:14.067 It's-- it is in worse shape than you think. 445 00:18:14.067 --> 00:18:17.234 And if you want to help us keep some control over it, 446 00:18:17.234 --> 00:18:19.234 we've got to have more dialogue.'' 447 00:18:19.234 --> 00:18:21.534 Well, could you argue that that leadership 448 00:18:21.534 --> 00:18:22.534 over there is a little bit out of touch, anyway? 449 00:18:22.534 --> 00:18:23.534 Could you-- 450 00:18:23.534 --> 00:18:25.534 The Chinese leadership? 451 00:18:25.534 --> 00:18:26.534 Yeah. 452 00:18:26.534 --> 00:18:28.534 I mean, these are-- 453 00:18:28.534 --> 00:18:29.534 I'll tell you, I'm not so sure about that. 454 00:18:29.534 --> 00:18:31.567 I'm really kind of impressed with their diplomacy. 455 00:18:31.567 --> 00:18:35.467 I think they are very, very expert at getting themselves 456 00:18:35.467 --> 00:18:37.467 heard and getting their way these days. 457 00:18:37.467 --> 00:18:39.467 Let's just take what just happened this week. 458 00:18:39.467 --> 00:18:41.467 We're about to have a summit in this country. 459 00:18:41.467 --> 00:18:43.467 We've essentially said to the Chinese, ``You still haven't 460 00:18:43.467 --> 00:18:45.467 done enough for us to let you into the world trading 461 00:18:45.467 --> 00:18:48.133 organization.'' They go to work with Leon Brittan from 462 00:18:48.133 --> 00:18:50.133 Great Britain to get a ``breakthrough'' on the 463 00:18:50.133 --> 00:18:52.200 barriers, concessions that they've given, which really 464 00:18:52.200 --> 00:18:58.467 apparently are not much concessions at all. 465 00:18:58.467 --> 00:19:01.501 This is a nice piece of diplomatic work in advance of 466 00:19:01.501 --> 00:19:02.501 the summit. 467 00:19:02.501 --> 00:19:04.534 I think it's caught us a bit off guard. 468 00:19:04.534 --> 00:19:06.901 It's essentially saying to the United States, ``Pretty soon 469 00:19:06.901 --> 00:19:10.534 you're going to be alone in trying to keep us out of the WTO. 470 00:19:10.534 --> 00:19:13.067 All your European allies are beginning to say now is the time 471 00:19:13.067 --> 00:19:15.767 to let us in.'' And you can see this happening over and over 472 00:19:15.767 --> 00:19:19.300 again in their diplomacy, where they're really quite persistent, 473 00:19:19.300 --> 00:19:22.100 quite subtle and quite good at getting some of 474 00:19:22.100 --> 00:19:23.100 their objectives. 475 00:19:23.100 --> 00:19:25.100 Well, look at how they handled Hong Kong, 476 00:19:25.100 --> 00:19:27.100 much better than 90 percent of the Western observers-- 477 00:19:27.100 --> 00:19:30.100 The jury is out on Hong Kong. 478 00:19:30.100 --> 00:19:32.100 The jury is out, but till now, you've got to 479 00:19:32.100 --> 00:19:34.067 admit that the-- there were people who were saying, 480 00:19:34.067 --> 00:19:36.701 you know, "Starting the day after the transfer, one, two, three, 481 00:19:36.701 --> 00:19:38.968 four and five is going to happen.'' 482 00:19:38.968 --> 00:19:39.968 None of it has happened. 483 00:19:39.968 --> 00:19:42.267 It may-- I mean, it may change, but-- 484 00:19:42.267 --> 00:19:44.267 And the argument is that they've got too 485 00:19:44.267 --> 00:19:46.267 much to lose. I mean, why-- 486 00:19:46.267 --> 00:19:47.267 Right. Exactly. 487 00:19:47.267 --> 00:19:48.267 Yeah. 488 00:19:48.267 --> 00:19:50.267 I think the way they're handling Taiwan right 489 00:19:50.267 --> 00:19:52.300 now is another example of pretty good, subtle diplomacy. 490 00:19:52.300 --> 00:19:55.834 They have come off of the belligerent-- missile tests and 491 00:19:55.834 --> 00:19:59.267 whatnot else because they got the message, of course, 492 00:19:59.267 --> 00:20:01.267 and also both sides got a little damaged. 493 00:20:01.267 --> 00:20:04.000 But what they're doing now is they're trying to enmesh Taiwan 494 00:20:04.000 --> 00:20:07.434 by increasing all the personal exchanges, the economic ties 495 00:20:07.434 --> 00:20:08.434 and whatnot else. 496 00:20:08.434 --> 00:20:09.434 And I can tell you something. 497 00:20:09.434 --> 00:20:11.434 The Taiwanese government is concerned about this. 498 00:20:11.434 --> 00:20:13.434 You mentioned Bosnia. 499 00:20:13.434 --> 00:20:18.834 If American troops leave there in 1998, 500 00:20:18.834 --> 00:20:19.834 war will break out again. 501 00:20:19.834 --> 00:20:21.834 Well-- 502 00:20:21.834 --> 00:20:22.834 That's a question. 503 00:20:22.834 --> 00:20:24.868 There'll probably be instability, 504 00:20:24.868 --> 00:20:27.567 but the really more important question is what are the troops 505 00:20:27.567 --> 00:20:28.567 doing there? 506 00:20:28.567 --> 00:20:32.734 What is the political objective of this-- of this mission? 507 00:20:32.734 --> 00:20:36.734 If it is, as Sandy Berger says it is, the reintegration of 508 00:20:36.734 --> 00:20:39.968 Bosnia, so that we have a peaceful, unified and prosperous 509 00:20:39.968 --> 00:20:42.968 Bosnia, frankly, you know, it's just nuts. 510 00:20:42.968 --> 00:20:45.567 I mean, there is-- this is not going to happen. 511 00:20:45.567 --> 00:20:49.200 For the last six years, these three groups -- the Serbs, 512 00:20:49.200 --> 00:20:52.334 the Croats and the Muslims -- have done everything they can 513 00:20:52.334 --> 00:20:53.334 to live separately. 514 00:20:53.334 --> 00:20:55.334 I mean, they have tried to secede. 515 00:20:55.334 --> 00:20:56.334 They have raped each other. 516 00:20:56.334 --> 00:20:57.367 They have killed each other. 517 00:20:57.367 --> 00:21:00.834 And the Serbs are absolutely to blame, but now, six years out, 518 00:21:00.834 --> 00:21:02.834 they aren't going to get back together. 519 00:21:02.834 --> 00:21:05.601 None of the re-migration that Dayton called for, the Dayton 520 00:21:05.601 --> 00:21:08.300 peace accords called for, less than 10 percent of it 521 00:21:08.300 --> 00:21:09.300 has happened. 522 00:21:09.300 --> 00:21:11.901 These guys are not going to live together. 523 00:21:11.901 --> 00:21:13.901 Quickly, to that question, though, 524 00:21:13.901 --> 00:21:15.334 on will war break out-- I think the chances are highly likely 525 00:21:15.334 --> 00:21:17.167 that it will and I think it-- 526 00:21:17.167 --> 00:21:19.167 if international forces leave, of which the U.S. 527 00:21:19.167 --> 00:21:22.434 is a part, because the Bosnian army has been 528 00:21:22.434 --> 00:21:23.434 greatly strengthened. 529 00:21:23.434 --> 00:21:26.801 The Serbian army has-- the Srpska army 530 00:21:26.801 --> 00:21:27.801 has been greatly weakened. 531 00:21:27.801 --> 00:21:32.434 And I wouldn't at all bet against the Muslims trying to 532 00:21:32.434 --> 00:21:34.901 take advantage of that situation-- 533 00:21:34.901 --> 00:21:35.901 To do what? 534 00:21:35.901 --> 00:21:38.400 To detach western and eastern Serbia. 535 00:21:38.400 --> 00:21:42.300 And to throw more Serbs back into Serbia. 536 00:21:42.300 --> 00:21:44.334 The American Encounter: The United States 537 00:21:44.334 --> 00:21:47.634 and the Making of the Modern World, some 43 articles 538 00:21:47.634 --> 00:21:48.634 from this publication-- 539 00:21:48.634 --> 00:21:49.634 And great photos. 540 00:21:49.634 --> 00:21:50.634 --Foreign Affairs-- and great photos. 541 00:21:50.634 --> 00:21:52.634 I know. 542 00:21:52.634 --> 00:21:54.634 I just saw one of them, George Kennan, in here. 543 00:21:54.634 --> 00:21:55.634 Yeah. 544 00:21:55.634 --> 00:21:57.634 Speaking of that, who is the greatest 545 00:21:57.634 --> 00:22:03.067 secretary of state in the 20th century? 546 00:22:03.067 --> 00:22:07.334 My candidate would be Dean Acheson. 547 00:22:07.334 --> 00:22:09.334 He has one of the most-- 548 00:22:09.334 --> 00:22:10.334 Henry Kissinger's going to be thrilled 549 00:22:10.334 --> 00:22:11.334 to hear you say this. 550 00:22:11.334 --> 00:22:13.701 Well, I think-- I think Henry's an extraordinary, 551 00:22:13.701 --> 00:22:16.534 brilliant diplomat and negotiator. 552 00:22:16.534 --> 00:22:19.200 He did not-- he was not secretary of state during a time 553 00:22:19.200 --> 00:22:22.934 in which one could accomplish as much as Dean Acheson did. 554 00:22:22.934 --> 00:22:23.934 Yeah. 555 00:22:23.934 --> 00:22:25.934 The times-- it's a little bit like when you-- 556 00:22:25.934 --> 00:22:26.934 Has something to do with it, yeah. 557 00:22:26.934 --> 00:22:27.934 --measure greatness in a president, 558 00:22:27.934 --> 00:22:29.467 if they have not had a war or a depression-- 559 00:22:29.467 --> 00:22:30.467 Yeah. 560 00:22:30.467 --> 00:22:32.467 --or something to test their mettle, then-- 561 00:22:32.467 --> 00:22:33.467 Yeah. 562 00:22:33.467 --> 00:22:35.467 --frequently there's no-- I mean, 563 00:22:35.467 --> 00:22:37.467 it's the kind of problem Clinton has now. 564 00:22:37.467 --> 00:22:39.467 It's the Truman-Marshall-Acheson period, 565 00:22:39.467 --> 00:22:41.467 a very short period of time in which, really, the basic 566 00:22:41.467 --> 00:22:43.467 processes and institutions for conducting-- 567 00:22:43.467 --> 00:22:45.467 Creating the post-World War II world. 568 00:22:45.467 --> 00:22:47.501 --put together, yeah. 569 00:22:47.501 --> 00:22:48.501 Yeah. 570 00:22:48.501 --> 00:22:49.501 Your choice? 571 00:22:49.501 --> 00:22:51.501 I would agree with Acheson. 572 00:22:51.501 --> 00:22:53.501 I would add to that-- I mean, in effect, in the post-war world, 573 00:22:53.501 --> 00:22:55.467 I'd say there are three great secretaries of state, Acheson, 574 00:22:55.467 --> 00:22:57.467 Kissinger and Shultz, who is sometimes neglected. 575 00:22:57.467 --> 00:22:59.467 Shultz understood the fundamental weakness of the 576 00:22:59.467 --> 00:23:01.467 Soviet system and the fundamental advantage of-- 577 00:23:01.467 --> 00:23:03.467 and inevitability of global capitalist triumph, if you want 578 00:23:03.467 --> 00:23:04.467 to put it that way. 579 00:23:04.467 --> 00:23:06.467 And if you look at what Reagan-- 580 00:23:06.467 --> 00:23:08.467 He understood the inevitability of-- 581 00:23:08.467 --> 00:23:09.467 Of-- of global capitalism triumphing. 582 00:23:09.467 --> 00:23:11.467 If you push the economic forces-- 583 00:23:11.467 --> 00:23:12.467 Yeah. 584 00:23:12.467 --> 00:23:13.467 Which Kissinger never really did, as he-- 585 00:23:13.467 --> 00:23:14.801 He would be the first to tell you. 586 00:23:14.801 --> 00:23:19.434 Well, Shultz is a trained economist 587 00:23:19.434 --> 00:23:21.434 and it was a great time, in a way, to have had somebody 588 00:23:21.434 --> 00:23:22.434 who understood economics. 589 00:23:22.434 --> 00:23:24.434 The next century will be America's century? 590 00:23:24.434 --> 00:23:26.434 I think the first part of it will be. 591 00:23:26.434 --> 00:23:28.467 The second part I think it's a little to far away to project. 592 00:23:28.467 --> 00:23:30.467 Will Foreign Affairs still be writing about 593 00:23:30.467 --> 00:23:32.033 it in the next century? 594 00:23:32.033 --> 00:23:33.100 Oh, absolutely. 595 00:23:33.100 --> 00:23:35.100 Jim Hoge, Fareed, thank you very much, 596 00:23:35.100 --> 00:23:37.501 Fareed Zakaria, the managing editor and-- editor-in-chief? 597 00:23:37.501 --> 00:23:38.601 What's your title? 598 00:23:38.601 --> 00:23:39.601 Just editor. 599 00:23:39.601 --> 00:23:40.601 Just editor. 600 00:23:40.601 --> 00:23:41.501 That's right.