WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.167 --> 00:00:02.267 We turn now to Saudi Arabia. 2 00:00:02.267 --> 00:00:03.100 Over the weekend, the Saudi Crown Prince, 3 00:00:03.100 --> 00:00:04.400 Mohammad bin Salman, 4 00:00:04.400 --> 00:00:06.501 ordered the arrest of dozens of Saudi Arabia's 5 00:00:06.501 --> 00:00:08.367 most influential figures. 6 00:00:08.367 --> 00:00:10.534 The arrests were made without any formal charges 7 00:00:10.534 --> 00:00:14.534 and were portrayed as part of a new anti-corruption campaign. 8 00:00:14.534 --> 00:00:16.901 The purge is the latest move from the Crown Prince 9 00:00:16.901 --> 00:00:21.234 in his drive to consolidate power and modernize the kingdom. 10 00:00:21.234 --> 00:00:23.701 On Saturday, President Trump spoke with King Salman 11 00:00:23.701 --> 00:00:25.968 and praised his son's recent reforms, 12 00:00:25.968 --> 00:00:28.667 but did not directly address the arrest. 13 00:00:28.667 --> 00:00:30.868 Joining me now from Washington is Robin Wright. 14 00:00:30.868 --> 00:00:32.901 She's a contributing writer for the New Yorker 15 00:00:32.901 --> 00:00:35.200 and a joint fellow at the U.S. Institute of Peace 16 00:00:35.200 --> 00:00:36.767 and the Woodrow Wilson Center. 17 00:00:36.767 --> 00:00:38.367 Her most recent piece for the magazine 18 00:00:38.367 --> 00:00:42.834 is called "The Saudi Royal Purge -- with Trump's Consent." 19 00:00:42.834 --> 00:00:44.767 Welcome, Robin. Thank you for coming. 20 00:00:44.767 --> 00:00:46.167 Great to be with you, Charlie. 21 00:00:46.167 --> 00:00:47.434 So, put all of this in context for us. 22 00:00:47.434 --> 00:00:49.968 What in the world is going on over there? 23 00:00:49.968 --> 00:00:52.734 And, you know, pick it up, I assume, 24 00:00:52.734 --> 00:00:54.634 not only the grand sweep of history 25 00:00:54.634 --> 00:00:58.400 and a young 30-year-old son 26 00:00:58.400 --> 00:01:00.100 advancing to be deputy Crown Prince, 27 00:01:00.100 --> 00:01:02.601 and then throwing out the Crown Prince 28 00:01:02.601 --> 00:01:08.000 and now making these arrests under the banner of corruption, 29 00:01:08.000 --> 00:01:09.267 a consolidation of power, 30 00:01:09.267 --> 00:01:11.400 and he already had a lot of power. 31 00:01:11.400 --> 00:01:13.701 Make some sense out of this for us. 32 00:01:13.701 --> 00:01:17.167 This is a real-life Game of Thrones. 33 00:01:17.167 --> 00:01:20.367 It is arguably the most dramatic moment 34 00:01:20.367 --> 00:01:22.734 in the modern history of Saudi Arabia. 35 00:01:22.734 --> 00:01:24.868 The young Crown Prince and his ailing father 36 00:01:24.868 --> 00:01:27.400 have basically engaged in a -- 37 00:01:27.400 --> 00:01:29.267 what amounts to a kind of coup d'état 38 00:01:29.267 --> 00:01:31.434 against their own royal family. 39 00:01:31.434 --> 00:01:33.667 It was a sweeping arrest over the weekend, 40 00:01:33.667 --> 00:01:36.801 that's reportedly continued through Monday, 41 00:01:36.801 --> 00:01:39.400 and no one's quite sure when it may end. 42 00:01:39.400 --> 00:01:45.133 So far, they've netted more than a dozen senior princes, 43 00:01:45.133 --> 00:01:50.167 three heads of networks, one of the richest men in the world, 44 00:01:50.167 --> 00:01:54.701 the leader of the most effective branch of the military, 45 00:01:54.701 --> 00:01:57.200 current and former cabinet ministers. 46 00:01:57.200 --> 00:02:03.100 This is astonishing in its sweep, and very sudden, 47 00:02:03.100 --> 00:02:05.267 but it does follow, as you pointed out, 48 00:02:05.267 --> 00:02:09.100 a number of steps, beginning with the summer 49 00:02:09.100 --> 00:02:11.133 when the Crown Prince and his father 50 00:02:11.133 --> 00:02:15.167 orchestrated the removal of the Crown Prince, 51 00:02:15.167 --> 00:02:18.834 and the young prince, the current king's third son, 52 00:02:18.834 --> 00:02:22.100 who's only 32 now, stepped in as the Crown Prince. 53 00:02:22.100 --> 00:02:26.000 He now holds the levers of every single branch 54 00:02:26.000 --> 00:02:27.634 that is important in the kingdom, 55 00:02:27.634 --> 00:02:30.667 political, economic, military, 56 00:02:30.667 --> 00:02:32.234 and within the royal court. 57 00:02:32.234 --> 00:02:35.367 And now he heads this new anti-corruption commission 58 00:02:35.367 --> 00:02:38.067 that has allowed him to arrest 59 00:02:38.067 --> 00:02:42.667 these extraordinary array of his own family, 60 00:02:42.667 --> 00:02:45.234 the most powerful people -- 61 00:02:45.234 --> 00:02:47.434 among the most powerful people in the kingdom, 62 00:02:47.434 --> 00:02:49.501 and to seize their assets. 63 00:02:49.501 --> 00:02:53.734 The New York Times reported that he issued a ban on travel 64 00:02:53.734 --> 00:02:55.868 for other members of the royal family. 65 00:02:55.868 --> 00:03:00.167 And it's very uncertain where this is now headed. 66 00:03:00.167 --> 00:03:02.467 Clearly, he wants to consolidate power. 67 00:03:02.467 --> 00:03:05.067 Clearly, this is in the run up to some kind of succession, 68 00:03:05.067 --> 00:03:08.434 whether it is with the King abdicating or becoming a regent 69 00:03:08.434 --> 00:03:10.267 and the Crown Prince stepping in, 70 00:03:10.267 --> 00:03:14.300 or paving the way to secure his claim to the throne 71 00:03:14.300 --> 00:03:16.234 in a very volatile environment 72 00:03:16.234 --> 00:03:18.467 that has repercussions for the Middle East, 73 00:03:18.467 --> 00:03:20.300 for the world's financial markets, 74 00:03:20.300 --> 00:03:23.167 and for the United States and Western allies 75 00:03:23.167 --> 00:03:24.834 dependent on oil. 76 00:03:24.834 --> 00:03:26.901 No one has seen the Saudi's fight 77 00:03:26.901 --> 00:03:29.167 like this publicly before. 78 00:03:29.167 --> 00:03:31.167 They have ruled by consensus. 79 00:03:31.167 --> 00:03:32.734 Yes. Absolutely. 80 00:03:32.734 --> 00:03:35.300 And since the founder of Saudi Arabia, ibn Saud, 81 00:03:35.300 --> 00:03:39.901 died in 1953, those sons all ruled by consensus. 82 00:03:39.901 --> 00:03:44.133 They would pick one brother and it went through the dozens 83 00:03:44.133 --> 00:03:48.167 of the founder King ibn Saud's sons. 84 00:03:48.167 --> 00:03:51.434 We're now at a point that not only have 85 00:03:51.434 --> 00:03:55.234 they purged other members of the royal family, 86 00:03:55.234 --> 00:03:59.067 they've also effectively created a new royal family 87 00:03:59.067 --> 00:04:02.467 from within the sprawling house of Saud, 88 00:04:02.467 --> 00:04:05.000 which has now thousands of members. 89 00:04:05.000 --> 00:04:07.667 And they're excluding, you know, 90 00:04:07.667 --> 00:04:12.367 hundreds of other princes who are senior. 91 00:04:12.367 --> 00:04:14.400 Among those purged was one who was a contender 92 00:04:14.400 --> 00:04:16.200 who's four decades older 93 00:04:16.200 --> 00:04:18.834 than Crown Prince Mohammad bin Salman, 94 00:04:18.834 --> 00:04:23.467 and this is a way of making sure that he gets the throne. 95 00:04:23.467 --> 00:04:25.601 What do you think the Americans, 96 00:04:25.601 --> 00:04:27.801 President Trump, 97 00:04:27.801 --> 00:04:31.534 his son-in-law knew about this? 98 00:04:31.534 --> 00:04:33.901 Well, it's very interesting that, 99 00:04:33.901 --> 00:04:35.267 of course, the relationship 100 00:04:35.267 --> 00:04:37.267 between Saudi Arabia and the United States 101 00:04:37.267 --> 00:04:39.501 has been transformed under President Bush. 102 00:04:39.501 --> 00:04:40.801 There was a lot of tension 103 00:04:40.801 --> 00:04:41.868 during the Obama administration -- 104 00:04:41.868 --> 00:04:42.534 Under President Bush 105 00:04:42.534 --> 00:04:43.868 or President Trump? 106 00:04:43.868 --> 00:04:45.300 Sorry, under President Trump, yes. 107 00:04:45.300 --> 00:04:49.701 And there was a lot of tension during the Obama administration. 108 00:04:49.701 --> 00:04:53.968 Trump made his first trip abroad as President to the kingdom. 109 00:04:53.968 --> 00:04:55.934 They have communicated regularly. 110 00:04:55.934 --> 00:04:58.901 His son-in-law, Jared Kushner, has made three trips; 111 00:04:58.901 --> 00:05:02.534 the last one unannounced at the end of October 112 00:05:02.534 --> 00:05:04.767 in the run-up to this massive purge. 113 00:05:04.767 --> 00:05:07.400 The pretext was to talk about the Middle East peace process, 114 00:05:07.400 --> 00:05:08.501 but the -- 115 00:05:08.501 --> 00:05:10.634 Jared Kushner has a very close relationship 116 00:05:10.634 --> 00:05:13.667 with the Crown Prince. They're both in their thirties. 117 00:05:13.667 --> 00:05:16.167 They reportedly talk well into the night, 118 00:05:16.167 --> 00:05:19.234 sometimes until four A.M., about regional issues, 119 00:05:19.234 --> 00:05:20.934 and there is a real closeness. 120 00:05:20.934 --> 00:05:23.834 And there is a sense that the Trump administration 121 00:05:23.834 --> 00:05:26.234 has implicitly, 122 00:05:26.234 --> 00:05:30.267 if not explicitly, approved what's happening. 123 00:05:30.267 --> 00:05:32.400 President Trump called the King on Saturday, 124 00:05:32.400 --> 00:05:34.734 from Air Force One, on his way to Asia, 125 00:05:34.734 --> 00:05:37.734 and praised him for the kind of statements 126 00:05:37.734 --> 00:05:39.300 the King and the Crown Prince 127 00:05:39.300 --> 00:05:42.400 have made, pledging modernization of the capital -- 128 00:05:42.400 --> 00:05:46.901 of the kingdom, and taking a firm stand against terrorism. 129 00:05:46.901 --> 00:05:52.200 And so there's a sense that the father and son duo 130 00:05:52.200 --> 00:05:54.267 now in power feel 131 00:05:54.267 --> 00:05:59.868 that they have the support or the flexibility to go ahead 132 00:05:59.868 --> 00:06:03.467 and take some really tough steps against their own family 133 00:06:03.467 --> 00:06:04.968 to secure their power. 134 00:06:04.968 --> 00:06:06.868 I hear two things. Number one, there is -- 135 00:06:06.868 --> 00:06:11.400 a lot of people are in favor of the kind of reforms that M.B.S., 136 00:06:11.400 --> 00:06:14.567 the Crown Prince, had enacted, his plan for economic change 137 00:06:14.567 --> 00:06:17.367 and his plan for changing certain 138 00:06:17.367 --> 00:06:18.834 cultural aspects of Saudi Arabia, 139 00:06:18.834 --> 00:06:21.968 including women driving as a symbol of that. 140 00:06:21.968 --> 00:06:25.968 Many support that but they object to him moving so fast, 141 00:06:25.968 --> 00:06:28.067 so young, so inexperienced, 142 00:06:28.067 --> 00:06:31.167 and there's some pushback to him for that reason. 143 00:06:31.167 --> 00:06:32.601 Is that true? 144 00:06:32.601 --> 00:06:34.267 Oh, I think so, absolutely. 145 00:06:34.267 --> 00:06:39.200 And his Vision 2030, which is an attempt to modernize the kingdom 146 00:06:39.200 --> 00:06:43.267 and transform parts of the kingdom into areas 147 00:06:43.267 --> 00:06:47.067 where they have high-tech hubs, for example, 148 00:06:47.067 --> 00:06:48.367 where there will be a lot of robots, 149 00:06:48.367 --> 00:06:52.434 where they'll do a lot of medical research, 150 00:06:52.434 --> 00:06:54.467 that this is a very ambitious plan. 151 00:06:54.467 --> 00:06:58.834 It calls for the investment of hundreds of billions of dollars. 152 00:06:58.834 --> 00:07:01.167 And there's a sense that this kind of modernization 153 00:07:01.167 --> 00:07:04.534 is really critical for the Saudi kingdom to move forward, 154 00:07:04.534 --> 00:07:08.234 that it has been a -- not only ultra-conservative, 155 00:07:08.234 --> 00:07:11.834 but dependent, economically, on basically its oil revenues, 156 00:07:11.834 --> 00:07:13.901 and this is an attempt to diversify. 157 00:07:13.901 --> 00:07:16.667 The problem, of course, is that economic reform 158 00:07:16.667 --> 00:07:18.634 is not matched by political form, 159 00:07:18.634 --> 00:07:20.200 and giving women the right to drive 160 00:07:20.200 --> 00:07:24.868 doesn't really take you to a place that opens up society. 161 00:07:24.868 --> 00:07:26.667 And there are also a lot of questions 162 00:07:26.667 --> 00:07:28.901 about whether women are going to be able to drive 163 00:07:28.901 --> 00:07:32.067 without getting permission from the male guardian, 164 00:07:32.067 --> 00:07:33.767 whether there will be limits on the hours, 165 00:07:33.767 --> 00:07:35.667 whether there will be limits on whether they can drive 166 00:07:35.667 --> 00:07:36.868 only to work 167 00:07:36.868 --> 00:07:40.667 and to shop and not to, as some people say, 168 00:07:40.667 --> 00:07:43.801 joyride, just to get out in their cars and drive. 169 00:07:43.801 --> 00:07:46.701 And so there are some token steps that have been taken 170 00:07:46.701 --> 00:07:49.701 or will be taken next year, but they're not meaningful, 171 00:07:49.701 --> 00:07:52.100 and this is a country where you have, 172 00:07:52.100 --> 00:07:54.367 you know, somewhere around -- 173 00:07:54.367 --> 00:07:57.567 the majority of the population is well under 30, 174 00:07:57.567 --> 00:08:00.300 and about a third of them are unemployed. 175 00:08:00.300 --> 00:08:03.934 And these issues don't address 176 00:08:03.934 --> 00:08:05.934 some of these fundamental concerns 177 00:08:05.934 --> 00:08:08.534 that have led to a lot of discontent and have led people, 178 00:08:08.534 --> 00:08:10.868 whether it's to join Al-Qaeda, join ISIS, 179 00:08:10.868 --> 00:08:14.367 or become disillusioned with the royal family, 180 00:08:14.367 --> 00:08:16.901 and this is a problem for the regime. 181 00:08:16.901 --> 00:08:20.734 They have taken some steps. They have ambitious plans, 182 00:08:20.734 --> 00:08:22.167 but will they be matched by things 183 00:08:22.167 --> 00:08:23.734 that will allow them 184 00:08:23.734 --> 00:08:26.234 to really feel like the country's modernizing? 185 00:08:26.234 --> 00:08:31.267 It is one of the most conservative countries on Earth. 186 00:08:31.267 --> 00:08:34.801 It has given us the ideology Wahhabi Islam 187 00:08:34.801 --> 00:08:37.400 that produced Al-Qaeda. 188 00:08:37.400 --> 00:08:40.234 And so there are a lot of questions 189 00:08:40.234 --> 00:08:41.801 about whether it really can adapt, 190 00:08:41.801 --> 00:08:44.601 especially under the leadership of someone who's only 32. 191 00:08:44.601 --> 00:08:45.968 Does it have to do with corruption 192 00:08:45.968 --> 00:08:51.100 or does it have to do with power and maintenance of power? 193 00:08:51.100 --> 00:08:52.601 Well, as a Saudi editor said to me 194 00:08:52.601 --> 00:08:54.067 yesterday, 195 00:08:54.067 --> 00:08:55.667 you know, the kingdom's been corrupt for 40 or 50 years, 196 00:08:55.667 --> 00:08:58.367 it's been endemic, and the question is, 197 00:08:58.367 --> 00:09:00.267 are these the people who are the most corrupt 198 00:09:00.267 --> 00:09:03.601 or are they just the people who might be the most threat 199 00:09:03.601 --> 00:09:10.200 or be seen as more visionary than the King and his young son? 200 00:09:10.200 --> 00:09:11.400 You know, corruption is an issue, 201 00:09:11.400 --> 00:09:12.701 and, yes, it must be dealt with. 202 00:09:12.701 --> 00:09:15.133 I mean, corruption, as you know as well as anyone, 203 00:09:15.133 --> 00:09:17.567 is endemic across the Middle East, 204 00:09:17.567 --> 00:09:18.801 and it's particularly bad 205 00:09:18.801 --> 00:09:21.534 in an oil-rich state like Saudi Arabia, 206 00:09:21.534 --> 00:09:22.968 but it's clearly not the only reason, 207 00:09:22.968 --> 00:09:25.868 and it may not even be the primary reason for this. 208 00:09:25.868 --> 00:09:28.634 People inside the kingdom resent the royal family, 209 00:09:28.634 --> 00:09:29.734 resent the kind of wealth 210 00:09:29.734 --> 00:09:34.300 that is concentrated among the elites, 211 00:09:34.300 --> 00:09:37.434 but I'm not sure this is the way to handle it. 212 00:09:37.434 --> 00:09:41.133 And what we don't know are some of the judicial steps, 213 00:09:41.133 --> 00:09:43.167 are these people being formally charged, 214 00:09:43.167 --> 00:09:45.067 have they had access to lawyers. 215 00:09:45.067 --> 00:09:47.567 As far as we know from pictures that were released today, 216 00:09:47.567 --> 00:09:50.100 a lot of them have been corralled into the Ritz Carlton, 217 00:09:50.100 --> 00:09:53.667 where there's a strong security contingent, 218 00:09:53.667 --> 00:09:57.801 and, you know, haven't been allowed to say anything. 219 00:09:57.801 --> 00:09:59.601 Why is Prince Alwaleed, a businessman, 220 00:09:59.601 --> 00:10:01.400 included in this? 221 00:10:01.400 --> 00:10:02.634 One of the most interesting figures 222 00:10:02.634 --> 00:10:04.901 is Alwaleed al Talal, 223 00:10:04.901 --> 00:10:06.767 who is one of the richest men in the world. 224 00:10:06.767 --> 00:10:08.601 He's mixed in his business dealings 225 00:10:08.601 --> 00:10:10.534 with Bill Gates and Rupert Murdoch. 226 00:10:10.534 --> 00:10:12.801 He actually bought -- was among the investors 227 00:10:12.801 --> 00:10:15.534 who took the Plaza in New York off Donald Trump's hands, 228 00:10:15.534 --> 00:10:17.267 and he bought a yacht from Donald Trump. 229 00:10:17.267 --> 00:10:20.834 Here's a guy who has investments in Citibank and Lyft. 230 00:10:20.834 --> 00:10:23.567 He's one of the largest investors in Twitter. 231 00:10:23.567 --> 00:10:26.801 He's really a forward-thinker and has been very imaginative. 232 00:10:26.801 --> 00:10:29.734 He gave 20 million dollars to Georgetown University 233 00:10:29.734 --> 00:10:32.567 to create the Center for Christian-Muslim Understanding. 234 00:10:32.567 --> 00:10:35.767 And that he was roped in in all of this 235 00:10:35.767 --> 00:10:39.968 is really an incredible signal to anyone with any resources 236 00:10:39.968 --> 00:10:41.767 who thinks they can buy their way out 237 00:10:41.767 --> 00:10:44.868 or that money is a cushion in Saudi Arabia, 238 00:10:44.868 --> 00:10:46.467 you know, is in for a real shock. 239 00:10:46.467 --> 00:10:47.701 Will these people be put on trial 240 00:10:47.701 --> 00:10:49.367 or what's going to happen to them? 241 00:10:49.367 --> 00:10:51.200 We have no idea. 242 00:10:51.200 --> 00:10:53.501 And -- but the one last story about -- 243 00:10:53.501 --> 00:10:54.968 Alwaleed. 244 00:10:54.968 --> 00:10:57.534 Alwaleed is that he got into a Twitter war 245 00:10:57.534 --> 00:10:59.968 with Donald Trump. 246 00:10:59.968 --> 00:11:03.534 In 2015, he sent out a tweet saying that he -- 247 00:11:03.534 --> 00:11:06.434 that Trump was not only a disgrace to the Republican Party 248 00:11:06.434 --> 00:11:09.501 but to the entire United States, and he should step down. 249 00:11:09.501 --> 00:11:10.601 And eight hours later, 250 00:11:10.601 --> 00:11:13.734 Trump tweeted back and called him dopey 251 00:11:13.734 --> 00:11:16.601 and said that he only excelled because of his father's money. 252 00:11:16.601 --> 00:11:18.734 And, of course, Donald Trump did pretty well off 253 00:11:18.734 --> 00:11:20.234 his own father's money. 254 00:11:20.234 --> 00:11:22.400 And so there's been a lot of tension 255 00:11:22.400 --> 00:11:23.901 between the two ever since. 256 00:11:23.901 --> 00:11:25.968 I talked to someone today who you know, 257 00:11:25.968 --> 00:11:28.367 and without being cute, and who said to me, 258 00:11:28.367 --> 00:11:30.934 look, this is either one of two things, 259 00:11:30.934 --> 00:11:34.100 a young man who's very, very confident in his own abilities, 260 00:11:34.100 --> 00:11:37.734 very confident that he can take risky moves and be -- 261 00:11:37.734 --> 00:11:41.734 and prevail, or B, he's very, very, very nervous 262 00:11:41.734 --> 00:11:45.300 and he's acting first in order to save his own skin. 263 00:11:45.300 --> 00:11:46.601 It may be a bit of both, 264 00:11:46.601 --> 00:11:51.100 that this is a young man who has incredible confidence, 265 00:11:51.100 --> 00:11:54.767 that he has a way to chart a whole different Saudi Arabia, 266 00:11:54.767 --> 00:11:58.400 after all, he's changing the way that the country is ruled 267 00:11:58.400 --> 00:12:01.100 and he's changing who rules it, 268 00:12:01.100 --> 00:12:02.767 but he's also incredibly vulnerable. 269 00:12:02.767 --> 00:12:04.234 And one of the things that's interesting 270 00:12:04.234 --> 00:12:06.501 is he may be picking up some of these people 271 00:12:06.501 --> 00:12:12.367 to ensure that when his father is either incapacitated or dies 272 00:12:12.367 --> 00:12:14.767 that there isn't a challenge to his own power, 273 00:12:14.767 --> 00:12:16.767 that he actually does get the throne. 274 00:12:16.767 --> 00:12:19.434 And he's made a lot of mistakes in a very short period. 275 00:12:19.434 --> 00:12:22.200 He was -- he became defense minister at the age of 29. 276 00:12:22.200 --> 00:12:24.434 He was behind Saudi Arabia's war on Yemen, 277 00:12:24.434 --> 00:12:27.767 which is becoming like its Vietnam. 278 00:12:27.767 --> 00:12:30.868 He's engaged in a feud with Qatar, 279 00:12:30.868 --> 00:12:32.267 which is a little peninsula, 280 00:12:32.267 --> 00:12:35.200 where you just were, off the Saudi Coast, 281 00:12:35.200 --> 00:12:36.667 and it's not gone well. 282 00:12:36.667 --> 00:12:38.634 Doha has done -- the royal family 283 00:12:38.634 --> 00:12:40.133 there has managed to survive 284 00:12:40.133 --> 00:12:45.000 this isolation by its big neighbor. 285 00:12:45.000 --> 00:12:49.367 And so the Saudis think they should have 286 00:12:49.367 --> 00:12:51.534 a more important role in the region, 287 00:12:51.534 --> 00:12:54.367 just as the -- this particular branch of the family 288 00:12:54.367 --> 00:12:55.667 thinks it should have a more important role 289 00:12:55.667 --> 00:12:56.934 inside the kingdom, 290 00:12:56.934 --> 00:12:58.367 and things aren't going well. 291 00:12:58.367 --> 00:12:59.801 What's the role, if any, 292 00:12:59.801 --> 00:13:01.667 of the Crown Prince 293 00:13:01.667 --> 00:13:05.767 of the United Arab Emirates? 294 00:13:05.767 --> 00:13:07.367 I don't know the answer to that question. 295 00:13:07.367 --> 00:13:12.000 Clearly, the United Arab Emirates and Saudi Arabia 296 00:13:12.000 --> 00:13:13.834 have moved hand in hand 297 00:13:13.834 --> 00:13:17.400 when it comes to whether it's common policy on Yemen, 298 00:13:17.400 --> 00:13:20.133 common policy against ISIS. 299 00:13:20.133 --> 00:13:24.367 They are of like minds in terms of trying to modernize. 300 00:13:24.367 --> 00:13:29.167 How much the UAE knew about this is unclear. 301 00:13:29.167 --> 00:13:31.501 You wrote in the newyorker.com, 302 00:13:31.501 --> 00:13:33.634 "It is the equivalent to waking up to find Warren Buffett 303 00:13:33.634 --> 00:13:37.601 and the heads of ABC, CBS, and NBC have been arrested, 304 00:13:37.601 --> 00:13:39.400 a former U.S. official told me. 305 00:13:39.400 --> 00:13:42.033 It has all the appearances of a coup d'état. 306 00:13:42.033 --> 00:13:44.968 Saudi Arabia is rapidly becoming another country. 307 00:13:44.968 --> 00:13:49.467 The kingdom has never been this unstable." 308 00:13:49.467 --> 00:13:52.467 So, this is not -- this is not over by a long shot. 309 00:13:52.467 --> 00:13:54.033 Not over; this is really the beginning. 310 00:13:54.033 --> 00:13:57.901 And the question is can the young Crown Prince sustain 311 00:13:57.901 --> 00:13:59.934 the momentum of -- 312 00:13:59.934 --> 00:14:04.801 that began this summer with this ousting his predecessor, 313 00:14:04.801 --> 00:14:07.400 then, in September, arresting prominent clerics 314 00:14:07.400 --> 00:14:08.968 and intellectuals, 315 00:14:08.968 --> 00:14:11.267 and now this massive sweep within the royal family. 316 00:14:11.267 --> 00:14:12.567 And -- 317 00:14:12.567 --> 00:14:13.701 I just take note of one thing 318 00:14:13.701 --> 00:14:15.400 that you mentioned at the very beginning, 319 00:14:15.400 --> 00:14:18.200 I mean, one of the powerful military forces in Saudi Arabia 320 00:14:18.200 --> 00:14:19.400 is the National Guard. 321 00:14:19.400 --> 00:14:20.400 And the National Guard has been led 322 00:14:20.400 --> 00:14:22.767 by the Abdullah family, 323 00:14:22.767 --> 00:14:25.534 who was the previous king who died, 324 00:14:25.534 --> 00:14:27.067 what, a year or two ago. 325 00:14:27.067 --> 00:14:31.367 And for years it has been their own power base. 326 00:14:31.367 --> 00:14:33.133 Then, all of a sudden, they replaced the head 327 00:14:33.133 --> 00:14:34.367 of the National Guard 328 00:14:34.367 --> 00:14:35.968 with one of their own appointees. 329 00:14:35.968 --> 00:14:37.067 And, in some ways, 330 00:14:37.067 --> 00:14:38.968 he was the most powerful man removed. 331 00:14:38.968 --> 00:14:40.567 The National Guard in Saudi Arabia 332 00:14:40.567 --> 00:14:42.968 is the most effective military branch, 333 00:14:42.968 --> 00:14:47.901 best trained, it has always had the primary role 334 00:14:47.901 --> 00:14:49.701 of protecting the royal family. 335 00:14:49.701 --> 00:14:51.367 And by taking over -- 336 00:14:51.367 --> 00:14:53.200 by ousting him and putting in his own man, 337 00:14:53.200 --> 00:14:54.934 the Crown Prince has basically taken over 338 00:14:54.934 --> 00:14:58.067 all the branches now of the security forces. 339 00:14:58.067 --> 00:15:01.534 So, it will be very hard for anyone to challenge him. 340 00:15:01.534 --> 00:15:06.200 And -- and this was, in some ways, the most shocking. 341 00:15:06.200 --> 00:15:10.701 It's eliminated a man who was Miteb al Abdullah, 342 00:15:10.701 --> 00:15:14.567 who was widely seen as a potential future king himself. 343 00:15:14.567 --> 00:15:16.667 Robin Wright, thank you so much. 344 00:15:16.667 --> 00:15:18.234 We'll be right back. 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